00:25 Hey, welcome back to the show. And today I am so pleased to have the man, the myth legend, Bill. Will you please tell us who you are and what you do?

00:34 Yeah, first of all, Todd, thank you for letting us be on with you today. We're real excited about what you're doing in the marketplace and how you're creating this platform. Uh, but you know, my name is Bill Simmons. Uh, I, uh, own and founded Thrive Business Operations. We deliver a fractional COO services. The way I try to describe it is that we serve business owners who are frustrated that their operations can't keep up with their vision, right? And, uh,

01:04 Which is most people, right?

01:06 Oh yeah, absolutely. And I never promised that we're gonna close that gap 100% because if you're a visionary leader, you're always ahead of the pack. But we do wanna shorten that gap, right? And reduce that frustration and get operations able to accomplish your vision and your desire for growth.

01:24 I hear you man. So your target audience, is there a niche that you hit? Is there a business size that you like to deal with? Like who is the perfect client for you?

01:33 Yeah, so we love working with privately owned businesses, really in that probably five to $30 million range of annual revenue. We've certainly served clients above that revenue range and below, we find ways that we can, our mission statement is serve people solve problems. So we're gonna try to find ways to serve outside of that core, but really we're industry agnostic. We say you be the expert in your industry. You're calling us because you want us to be experts in operations, right? And so we're able to work across industries, but certainly, uh, that's, that's kind of the starting point for who we want to have conversations with and who we think we can serve the best.

02:15 Love it, I love it. All right, so that being said, I happen to hit the same target audience and this podcast is directed to that target audience. So if you're listening, chances are, you're one of these people who are owning and operating a business in that five to $30 million range. And you all know the key pain points you're dealing with and operations is definitely one of them. Bill, tell us about the difference. Every business needs a visionary and it's not wrong to have visionaries, but where do they sometimes fall flat on their face when it comes to operational?

02:50 Yeah, well, certainly there's a challenge and a growing and scaling company that if we're working with the founder and a lot of times that is we're working with right in that five to $30 million range or either you've either founded the company or you're a second generation of a legacy company, right? And you've had to wear all kinds of different hats to get to where you are. And now it's time to really find a trusted partner to really come along that is gonna understand your vision, understand the culture you're trying to create and grow with you. There's too many people out there saying, well, if you do it my way, here's the results you're gonna get. Our thing is, you got to where you are today by trusting your gut, right? You need somebody that's gonna come along and try to replicate your vision, your culture. So we really feel that, you know, that really starting point conversation is one, I've either been doing it on I'm wearing too many hats and I'm tired of doing that, or they've tried hiring an operations person and honestly had a failed experiment, right? And that could we could do a whole show just on that.

04:05 I think we could too. I've seen enough of those failures and to be quite honest, you know, I've failed as a founder sometimes, like what do I hand off to my operations guy? What do I let them take care of? What should I expect them to do for me that I feel like I'm really good at, but probably aren't very good at? And I think that's the gap, right? That's the chasm. How do you help a founder realize that they're good at some things, but operations may not be the thing for you.

04:38 Yeah, well, first of all, I think it's not just bringing competency in a partnership with you, right? It's bringing the process, you know, business operating systems. You know, we've all read, you know, various books. I have five right here I could just put on the screen and say, you know, that honestly, all five of these books say similar things. But, you know, we, I don't think we use enough, you know, EOS and Traction made the term business operating system somewhat popular. But I honestly don't think, I don't think we use that term. Enough you know we have our version and I could give you again five books and have different versions of business operating system But it's really that somebody is not just coming in Operationally to take on tasks and say okay. We got that done, but it's really Strategic direction running the business 90 days at a time. We call those quarterly sprints, right? Business is a marathon of sprints. And let us really come in, partner with you to understand what your quarterly priorities and objectives should be, and helping you run the business that way. That really meets the need of a business owner to take it to the next level.

05:50 100% agree with you. And for those listening, it is so hard for any one person to dig, you know, it's hard to launch a business and it's hard to get to five million or even two million is hard to get to. But once you're there, you should be making some money, you should be profitable. And you start thinking, what are my next steps? What are the next hurdles I've got to hit to kind of get me to that 10 million, 20 million, 50 million range, and Bill, you and I are totally aligned on this. It's systems. It's an operational system. It's a playbook. It's a how do we do this so that I can teach someone else to do it next, right? What are some of the first things that you, like in your engagements with companies, what are some of the first things you see that you're like, okay, I gotta check this, this and this?

06:46 Well, certainly it's alignment of expectations, right? Because most frustration is the result of unmet, unspoken expectations. And so, I know it doesn't sound super sexy, but one of the first things we really have to do is understand who is your team and what tools are you using and are the expectations clear and aligned, right? And so really then once we're clear on expectation it's communication and accountability. And I meet with business owners all the time that say, you know what, I don't want to micromanage accountability. Now, honestly, I don't believe in micromanagement either, but we do need to put systems and processes in that clarify expectations, make sure communication is clear and that accountability is found on the other side of that. So there's a lot in the very early stages, we call it the deep dive, and during the deep dive stage of an engagement, the quick wins we believe come from getting alignment in that fashion.

07:55 Yes, I would have to agree. Quick wins are what guys like you and I are always looking for, and you can almost always find them in alignment. So, there's so many people thinking they know the direction of the company that every part of the company, even when you've got 10 people, 20 people, sometimes it's going wah all over the place, right? 

08:14 Right. And

08:15 So, yeah, go ahead.

08:16 Yeah, and, now I was just gonna say that that's an important gap to fill, right? Because if there is a gap from what you expect as a business owner and what your team is trying to execute on, you're always going to be frustrated. You're never going to, and you can't understand, why don't people see it the way that I see it, right? And so our goal is to make sure that we're filling that gap.

08:43 Right, right. Now I can remember, you know, the first business that I scaled past $5 million in revenue, it was so exciting because we were making good money, it felt good, but I was running ragged. I was wearing so many hats, it was very hard for me to delegate. I didn't feel like anyone could do what I was doing as good as I was doing it. And I think that a lot of people listening are feeling that way as well. What do you do? What do you do to help them feel like. Here is the way. Here is what you need to let go of. Here's how you let go of it. What are some of those tools and tricks that you do to do that?

09:23 Well, we use something we call the Thrive Matrix. It really is our version of understanding energy and effort, right? And I think it's as simple as what is life giving versus what is life draining and what is making impact and what's not making impact. Right? So the energy is if it's life giving, if it's life draining, is it giving me energy or draining energy? Like this here, I love this. This gives me energy. And so I would say if you tell me I have five minutes to speak or I have five hours, you have to let me know because I can fill both spots. Because it actually gives me energy to have these types of conversations and engagement. You tell me to put a spreadsheet together. I'm saying just like, you know, put my eye out right now. That is a life dream. It's not that I don't have the capability to do it. It's just not the best use of my time. So what we really want to do is make sure where do you want to be working on the business and set it in it? I know that's a phrase we hear a lot, but truly where, it's not that you're wanting to try to avoid being engaged in the business. What I find is if you've founded a business, you want to be engaged. You want to be in the game. Nobody wants to be on the sideline. And you don't want to be in the chief seats. That's why you started the business, right? So you could be in the game. And so how do we help you find that? And then clarify that. And let's get away from you doing things out of necessity. When you started the business, you did everything out of necessity. In my company, every client we had for so many years built, summed, and sold. Because, I was the business, right? And as we've grown now, I had to check my ego into the door and realize, you know what, there may be some other people who can actually sell this service better than me. And how about this one time, when I productize how we deliver the service, Bill Simmons used to be the best fractional COO on my team. Now, I am no longer the best COO on my team. 

11:33 Right, doesn't that feel good?

11:34 Honestly. I might not even be the top four. You know? And so where do I need to be focusing my attention and what is the, and am I willing to change as the business changes?

11:47 I love it. And if you're not willing to change, you're never gonna grow. And you know, we all see companies in that five to 10 million range and we look at them sometimes we think, wouldn't that be awesome to be where they're at? I look at it sometimes and I talk to those founders and so often they are trapped and they don't know how to get out because they're literally 60 to 80 hours a week and they can't, they can't operationalize what they do every day. And so, you know, it's funny when you look at the guys in that 30 to 50 or even $100 million range, they've learned that when you plug people in that are more high value than you are in a specific niche part of your business, they kick butt and start taking names and you're like, whoa, all of a sudden we're growing in areas that didn't think we could. And it was because they were the bottleneck.

12:43 Yeah, that's a great point Todd. So two things I say about that is one, if you have a vision that is bigger than yourself, right? So you're not just trying to give yourself a job, you're really trying to grow a business and scale it to grow. If you have a vision that's bigger than yourself, then it requires more than yourself. 

13:12 Interesting. Yeah.

13:13 So you have to give, you have to be willing to say I can't be all these roles. I have to bring other people into this vision. I have to bring other people into this journey of where we're trying to go to together and be willing to share. Share vision is not just I verbally spoke it. It's literally link arms together and share with me this vision and experience. Big difference.

13:34 Agreed, 

13:35 captainscouncil.com

15:14 And how do they do that though? You know, I see this and I hear what you're saying. You know, I'm in engagement right now with a client who is in this boat. They're about a $50 million company. They have multiple properties, multiple venues, and they are having the hardest time aligning the resources to feed all three locations as opposed to, you know, there's a lot of operational problems that they're running into, a lot of friction and places. How do you help a business like that become more congruent in the way that the flow of the business operates in no matter what location, how do you get them to be the same? How do you get them to gel the same way?

15:57 Well, certainly, you talked earlier about process. So we've talked a lot about people so far, right? People being aligned, people being expectations and communication accountability. I always say, it's not people or processes, it's and both. And so now you're doing the hard work of process creation, and not just like with people where we need to clarify expectations, communicate and hold accountable, dare I say, use the same three for processes. Are our processes, are we able to truly clarify the expectation of what the outcome is supposed to be? I know in, you're all familiar with OKRs, right? Objectives and key results. If you're not familiar with that in the audience, then just Google OKRs and you're gonna get. More information. But it stands for objectives and key results. I really wish that they'd use the word objectives and I really wish they used the word outcomes. It's outcomes and key results, right? So in the processes, do we clarify what outcomes we're wanting and making sure we know what that expectation are. Have we communicated with our team how to deliver this process? And in the world of AI, it's like we're always looking, we're looking for the solution that checks the minds in at the door. We don't check the minds. Your processes are only as scalable as they are trainable. So we want to make sure that we're not only clear on the expectations and outcomes, we're able to communicate and train this process. And then accountability is measuring. Are we measuring whether or not these processes are truly delivering those outcomes? That turns into the accountability, right? And so part of that in your example is if we're, you know, I know just enough to be dangerous with your example, but if we're not booking those venues in the same format and process. If we're not delivering how we manage each one of those in the same methods, then it's hard to scale as a company. We have to be clear that we can take those processes and deliver them in any location with any person.

18:24 100%. They have to be consistent across all locations. Otherwise, you're just replicating work again and again and again, and your cost to get sold just keeps, your overhead just stays higher than it needs to be when you could systematize and centralize even a lot of the operations for all three locations, which is what we're doing right now, which is a fun project. But, you know, for those listening, You know, and I would love to dive into your business itself, Bill, because here you are, the guy that talks about it all the time, that does it all the time. Tell us about your growth. How have you been able to, I guess, utilize your own systems and practices into growth and scaling your own operation?

19:03 Yeah, that's great. So one of the things I love when I have an opportunity to speak with a business owner about how we can serve them. And I know that they're having conversations with other people. And they can be, again, whether it's another firm like ours, or it's a single shingle that does operations, or they're having a conversation, whatever. I always say, don't bring somebody on your team to help manage people and processes that doesn't have a process on how they deliver that for your company. So the proof is in the pudding, right? So we have to swallow our own medicine. So one thing is we practice. What we call the Thrive Ops cycle is our business operating system. It's our five set process on how we deliver fractional COO services. And we geek out about that all the time on sharing that with companies that this is exactly how we're going to deliver serving your company. And so we have to run our company on the same Thrive Ops cycle. So we're, we're focusing on strategy and clarifying, uh, running our company 90 days at a time. That's our promise to the client is that we will help run your company 90 days at a time. So we are running our company the same way. We're coming up with our OKRs, we're sharing that with our team, at every team meeting, giving them an update of whether or not we're on track or off track, and how well we're progressing in those obstacles. So we have to swallow our own medicine and run our business with the same business operating system that we're asking our clients to 

20:42  Right? I love it. And that is so powerful. And that's honestly how you're able to refine your systems, right, is by trying to implement them yourself.

20:50 Yeah, absolutely. Because I've had great ideas that didn't work. And so, I, it's, 

20:57 Right. Wait, you have?

20:59 Yeah, absolutely. And so what I've had to do is like, we've modeled, like here's how we're gonna deliver this for clients. And then we try to operate, you know, and sell it as that, right? Because we all, you know, try to punch up, right? And, but at the end of the day, you know, there have been many times that we've put processes in place and said, you know what, I think this is a better way to serve the client because here's, that was a good idea, but here's the idea that actually executes and being will we pivot with that. And we should always be experimenting on our own companies. What we're asking our clients to receive from us.

21:36 Totally, totally. I agree. And when you're not, you just don't know whether they work or not, which is a horrible thing to be in as well. So, you know, it's crazy.

21:46 Right. And you have to have confidence. Right? You have to have confidence. You know, we're not just selling this concept. We're providing a service that we actually have confidence in because we've delivered it before. And we're practicing within our company.

22:02 Now, right, and now as we talk about the fractional model in and of itself, there's a lot of things to consider. We have so many different ways to service people. Professional services businesses, they can be hard because oftentimes it's a service, you can't see the widget that you just delivered to them sometimes as obviously as a product-based businesses who's selling them a product and they, they either get the delivery or they don't, right? But on a professional services level, how do you, what were the big surprises that you hit as you were trying to hit your growth stride and move beyond Bill being the top salesman and Bill being the best deliverer of fractional operational services?

22:50 Yeah, well, first, I think it did start with vision that I, you know, at the beginning there was like, hey, I just had this idea, this is something that, that I could, I see an opportunity in the marketplace, let me execute it. And then as my vision expanded, I would say, vision changes when you see things differently, right? 

23:11 Sure.

23:12 So, you know, I have a vision to climb the mountain, but when I get to the mountain, then I actually see the, vision of what is out there that I couldn't see from the bottom. Now I see things differently, right? And so we want to see things differently. So I did as well. I was like, I really see a firm model here. How do we productize our service and being able to train other fractional COOs to deliver this? And so the first thing is I started with a greater vision. And then it was trusting others. And I'm real proud to say that though I founded the company. Today, I have a business partner, her name's Kai Bailey, and we work together. She came on an engagement, because I was in a season where I was able to outsell what I could deliver by myself. I needed support. Don't hear me, I've been in both places, right? I've been where I, it's the other way. But that was the season that she and I became connected in. She had her own business, and we realized, we were really trying to do the same thing. We've really discovered that together we are the definition of synergy. And so now all of a sudden it's like, hey, the concept works. And then you bring on somebody else and you're like, now, so the first thing was who else can deliver this service besides me? Right? That was the beginning for scalability for me is who else can deliver? Then we got to the place of who can sell this service besides me? Right? Both of those allowed us to be able to get to a place where we begin to see growth.

24:46 Love it. Ah, fascinating. This is just a fun conversation and I love what you're doing. For many people listening, if this is you, let us know in the comments. I know that Bill and I would both love to be able to see who is struggling with this transition of getting beyond yourself in your growth stage because these are the gold nuggets you need to hear. These are the things that are gonna help you more than almost anything else in developing new product and all the other customer service aspects of your business, knowing how to grow beyond you is gonna be the answer to all of your problems of growth. Would you agree with that, Bill?

25:25 Oh yeah, absolutely. And again, I'm a vicious reader and we've all read the good books that are out there. But it's not how, but it's who, right? And making sure that we're asking who should be doing this besides me. And as you're scaling and you're moving from the quadrant of being self-employed to really being a business owner, you actually have to get out of the way of it.

25:59 Love it, love it, love it. Well, I love this conversation and Bill, I need to know before I let you go, who is it in your world that's been kind of a big impact on the way you've been able to grow and scale a business? We love to get a shout out. Is there someone that you've been able to lean on or an example that has been there in your corner to help you get to where you're at now?

26:19 Well, certainly, because I think there's certainly a lot of kind of mentors from my past, and I think books are great mentors, and the people out there. But for me, honestly, I spent a lot of my adult life. you know, kind of being a personality who's just kind of isolated. And I, my best friend is named Rick Stroud. I call up, reach out. He owns a local real estate brokerage is just outstanding and growing. We met probably about 10 years ago and I'll be out there every time. I, you know, I actually told you all the things that as excited as I can get, also the doubts that have cropped into my mind from time to time. He has been, he has been the person who said. Well, why wouldn't you do that? How could you? And so even when I made the transition in this business to do some of the ways that we're delivering now, he was just one of the people there that, inspiration, encouragement, accountability, I put all three of those things, even today, when I have doubts, and we all have doubts, it's not, you can't. Being an entrepreneur, being a business owner is a journey of faith. And that's really just a spiritual experience. But like the moment you say, I believe I can, that's his faith. And then you start the business, you're like, oh my gosh, I hope I'm right. Doubt creeps in. So you can't have faith without doubt. And Rick's been one of those people who has pushed me to operate in my faith, even when I've had doubts.

27:58 And how many business owners do you work with that don't have doubts?

28:02 I've yet to meet one that doesn't have those doubts.

28:03 I agree with you. Even the people you think that are the most successful have huge doubts about what they're doing and is this gonna keep working? You know what I mean? So if that's you, listen up. This is a great conversation to have. For those of you needing operational help, I can't recommend enough. You talked to Bill. He clearly knows what he's doing. He's putting into practice what he's doing. And I know that most of you out there need help operationally. So,  get on a call, talk to Bill, see what he can do to help you. And if Bill and you don't work out, find somebody. Get a peer group, get something in your life that's gonna help you see that you are the bottleneck, that you need to put systems in play. Read the books we've talked about, do something. But please, please don't hesitate to reach out to Bill. Find out what he can do to help you. And if you're not operationally sound or you know there's something missing, let somebody come in and point it out to you and then come up with a plan to help you execute. So Bill, thank you so much for being on today. I loved the conversation.