00:25 Hey, welcome back to the show. And we are so honored today to have coming to us all the way from Eastern Europe, from the Czech Republic. Petr, will you please tell us who you are and what you do?

00:36 Hey, so yeah, I'm Petr obviously. I'm ex-IBMR trying to actually start some funny business. We are trying to help companies get visibility and control over cloud native software development because we believe that the source code is still valid and that hopefully not everybody will be replaced by AI and local no code solutions and some people will enjoy actually coding and we want to help them actually with that. So that's our core mission, I would say.

01:04 I love it. And who do you serve with that? Because I know that a lot of people, small, small companies can get away with low code, no code. But you're talking about a solution that's a lot more complete, a lot more sophisticated, a lot more customized. Who are you targeting with this product?

01:21 Well, that's a good question. So basically, as I said, BayingX, IBM, I had a really good experience in the very large enterprises. Then I realized that basically as a startup, you have no chance to sell them anything at all, most likely. So then we focused on startups. 

01:40 Don't cut yourself short.

01:42 And well, startups is a really good, let's say, segment. But there is one problem in regards with the VCs, you know? They churn and they don't pay. So we ended up with mid-market nowadays. And mid-market is our core, let's say, company size. And mostly logistics nowadays. We actually somehow found out that logistics is the segment where a lot of amazing custom software development is happening. So, yeah.

02:13 Yeah, well, I think that's a smart play. Logistics is a huge piece of every country's economy, right? I mean, how do you get stuff from here to there? And tracking and all the tools that you can incorporate nowadays is probably pretty sophisticated. That sounds pretty awesome.

02:27 Yeah, it is. And basically, you know, with the e-commerce that actually hyped over the COVID era, you know, everybody started shipping 10 times more. So the companies finally realized, well, we have to do something with our systems. So that's that I think it's good timing now.

02:41 I love it. I think it's great timing. And I think that your messaging is very clear. And for those of you listening, I want you to go check it out. I mean, go to codenow.com and check out what he's doing. It is codenow.com, right?

02:58 Yes, it is.

02:59 Yes, it's your.com. Yeah, yeah, okay, just making sure. A lot of IOs lately. I just about threw myself off there. So if you go check out his website, the message is very clear. Low code and no code have a place. But when it comes down to growth and scaling, which all of you listening are in the course of doing right now, you really need to be thinking about what Peter has to offer here. Petr, talk to us about why you've set up to solve this problem. I know XI, IBM, but what does that actually mean? Tell us what coding languages are you experienced in? What kind of problems are you seeing that can't be solved with low code, no code?

03:34 Well, so let's put it this way. As medium or larger company, you put a lot of your investment into your something distinctives. You can't get a competitive advantage by actually purchasing something, right? So you need to develop. And then the question is, where do you invest? Do you invest in a source code which is running on a third party machine and you have no chance actually to maybe even download it, you know, and it is interpreted in some way, and you have no control over performance, and you just basically rely on someone else's scaling and performance tuning capabilities, or you want to actually treat it on your own, and then you are basically guiding your own destiny. So those are the companies that we are looking for. And I understand that at the beginning, most of the developers who are not experienced in let's say cloud native and distributed. They are struggling at the beginning. And in the old days, let's say, JE days, you was juggling with only few balls. You had some deployment artifacts, few configuration files, that was it. Nowadays, when going to the cloud, you are literally juggling with hundreds of balls, which actually takes you to automation. And then it takes you to how many automation languages and scripts you actually, you need to master and then everything is infrastructure related. So suddenly you have a GCP stack and AWS stack. Well, then the question is, how do you rescale 150 developers in your own company? That's not cheap and it's not fast. So that's essentially the problem we are trying to crack.

05:20 I love it, I love it. So as you come into a company and you see that they've got a fairly complex architecture or tech stack, a lot of them are using off the shelf or very low modified SaaS products, which again, there is a place for that. But let's say that you've got a, let's say you've got a $50 million company based off a tech stack that at any point could go under, you're kind of crap out of luck. I mean, you could lose your entire database in an overnight situation, right?

05:51 Yeah, that's definitely true. And I believe that, you know what, there is a thing called domain-driven design, basically, and it says that you always have your core domain of problems, then you have some generic domain of problems and supporting domain of problems. So I believe that using low-code, no-code in somewhat generic domain, where you are not really, you will not cripple your business if it is down for a moment. Maybe your back office will be processing less invoices per hour. Well, it will essentially run. On the other hand, the customer facing, the thing that sells, the thing that actually makes your business your business is the core domain. Should we code it? Should we highly available? And you definitely have to have control over that.

06:35 I love it, I love it. I get the argument and I get what you're trying to do. And I think mid-market is actually a really good size for that because most of them are kind of exhausting the available product that they're using right now and they just don't know what to do next. And so I think the solution you're providing makes a lot of sense for most companies and say that, well, what are you looking at? 10 to 50 million, up to 100 million, somewhere in there, that kind of ballpark?

07:02 Yeah, something like that. Yeah, definitely.

07:07 All right, so if you're in that ballpark and you're listening to this thinking, crap, my business would die if I lost all my data. Then you should probably be thinking, I should be talking to someone like Peter right now. And Peter, this isn't the first time you've done this. You came from the Czech Republic to the Bay Area, created Code Now, but prior to that, what were you doing in the Czech? I mean, what kind of led into this launch into the US marketplace, and tell us about how these two kind of work together.

07:38 Well, so essentially I had the idea for the product from the very beginning. The problem was that in Czech Republic, there was no one who did really want to invest into that idea because everybody told me, well, that's just a big boy's game, you know, and you're starting with three co-founders. That's a very good, but we don't trust that you will ever deliver. So then I actually started a company doing professional services, mostly coding and advisory architecture, and that somewhat grew organically to something which is nowadays nearly $10 million in revenue. And that actually helped us to bootstrap code now. After we bootstrap, we got some seed money and we use that actually to move to US and to start actually the proper, let's say we seal a journey, yeah.

08:26 Love it, love it. So you've been in that journey now for several years, coming to the US and Code Now opens up in the Bay Area, raise a little money and now you're off to the races because you're finding your niche, right? I mean, how has growth been now that you've kind of gotten here and you're now developing and you're building a local team, how is that growth going? And tell us some highlights, what's happening in the business?

08:53  Well, so it's not going that bad. I mean, we are still doing something like, I don't know, 15, 20 percent month over month nowadays. I'm happy that we can finally measure month over month growth. And, 

09:11 That's nice, huh? It's nice to get out of the startup launch area.

09:15 Yeah, yeah, definitely. Being a bit bigger than just random luck sells, you know, so that's definitely good. Well, the most difficult part nowadays is, I would say definitely there is a way different attitude in the US than it is in Europe. Let's say in Europe, most of the buyers and the buying personas, they are mostly focused on improving their bottom line. We want to actually avoid costs. We want to actually cut down the costs, help us with that. In the US, I see that most of the people, I don't wanna say that they don't worry about costs, but they are more focused on actually improve my top line. I really want to get new revenue streams. I want to actually improve my margin. I want to actually get my product, get my service out there faster. So that's something that we are somehow aligning with European history, let's say, or way of thinking. And definitely everything goes from there, you know, so how do you explain to yourselves people how to sell the product, which is that complex? I mean, uh, something that we are still somewhat cracking down is how to split my brain into several individual business functions that can scale independently. So, 

10:36 When you figure that out you let us know and we'll put you back on the show because that could be a good product

10:42 Well, definitely will do. Actually, it's a fun thing that we have a customer in San Diego that is doing something in AI, actually. But it's a company called Personal AI. Thank you guys. And they are doing very nice product actually, how to make a digital twin of your brain, how to make a copy of yourself to help you with something. So hopefully very soon I will be able to leverage their product running on code now to help me with that.

11:13 captainscouncil.com 

12:30 Well, I love what you're saying, but you've learned this lesson already, and I'm assuming you're kind of not giving yourself enough credit, in my opinion. Here's what I mean. I think from what you've told me and from what you've explained to me before our call, just briefly, you've got a thriving operation already existing in Jack. You're now coming in and playing the launch startup Raise Money game in the US, but behind you, you've got hundreds of employees who are already operating as you in different departments. Am I wrong?

13:05 Yeah, that's true. Well, nowadays it's nearly 150 people.

13:10 Give yourself some credit, Petr. Yeah, yeah, 150 people is no slouch. That's a great company.

13:19 Well, yeah, it's great people. You know, they're very clever, very smart, you know, and I'm kind of a fan of a flat org chart, you know, flat organization structure. So they're basically managing themselves, you know, and therefore that makes everything way easier. So luckily not too many OKRs and KPIs and stuff like that, you know, to be, to be validated every week and every month. So that helps.

13:48 That's great. Now as you develop that structure though, this is a really big deal. And I think that most people that listen to the podcast, this is where a lot of people struggle, is even setting up the type of org chart that you developed and set up for your business. Most of them don't even have that in place. Will you tell us a little bit about why you are so adamant about the org chart in general and how you leverage that to make it easier to manage all your teams and all your people. 

14:17 Well, so let's put it this way. I was always keen on like a brand and reputation, because I was always like, you only have one shot, and if you screw up your brand, well, then it will be difficult. I'm not gonna be IBM, I know that the big brands, they can avoid doing mistakes. I believe and I think that small brands do not have this kind of a luxury. So, I started only hiring senior people, which was kind of a, you know, less margin. On the other hand, they were self-sufficient, you know, and they were actually helping me and they were bringing the knowledge. So, instead of me teaching them, they were teaching me and I could delegate a lot from the very day one. So that helped a lot, you know, and over the time. We just introduced so many juniors, so just to improve the margin a bit and put a bit of stability into the growth. So it's not so fragile. But essentially over the time, it was the senior people in the company that already knew how things work, you know, and they were able to overcome so many problems without me stepping in. So I would recommend start with the senior people, you know, they are more expensive, but they will take a lot of burden off your back.

15:45 I love that you said that because that is a step that a lot of people skip. I mean, a lot of people wanna get the cheapest people that can in and they will outsource offshore, they'll outsource to other places, and they really don't leverage awesome people because I think for one thing, a lot of them don't know how to manage a senior level person. It's different than managing a new hire or someone kind of fresh into coding or fresh in the industry. Tell us, I mean, how did you even think to do that, first of all? And second of all, how did you find yourself hiring people who likely knew more than you do about your product and manage them? Was that hard?

16:25 Well, I would say it depends, you know, there are business functions. So from the product perspective, the product people, that was kind of easy, you know, because they had similar experience because they themselves were working for incorporated environments for many years, you know, and the initial set of people, all of them, they had like 10 plus years in corporate development. So they very much knew the problem I'm trying to address. And they did really love the idea. And because there was this chemical and sort of a mission kind of a match from the very beginning, it was quite easy, I would say. 

17:08 Right. That's awesome.

17:09 Later on, there were other business functions like marketing and sales. Well, I would say that was way more complicated, but after some time, actually even that started working. So,

17:22 That's really funny to hear you say that because I get a lot of people on the show who are marketing and sales specialists and they always think, no man, the product development's the hardest thing and you just came in here saying the exact opposite. Tell us about the challenge. I mean, obviously, in my opinion as a marketer, you've done a really good job on your site of emphasizing the difference between a low code, no code and coding because I think you're hitting a really solid messaging sequence on there. How did you come up with that and what other challenges did you face in that sales and marketing arena?

18:07 Well, so code now and the problem we are addressing is not really simple. You know, if you take a look on what it takes, you know, to develop software, especially when you focus on enterprise grade quality, security, and all those aspects, you know, reliability, robustness, resilience, et cetera. It's hundreds of buzzwords and keywords. Most of the marketing and sales people never heard before, you know and they have only fuzzy kind of understanding what it means. And each time they get in front of the, let's say buying persona in our world, it's somebody VP of engineering, CTO, somebody like that, who is well experienced in that, you know, so at the very beginning of the conversation, typically there is a clash where the buying persona says, on the other hand, hey man, you have no clue what you're selling me. And I'm either gonna speak to someone who has a clue you're gone. So not many salespeople are actually able to cope with that, you know, that they cannot sell it and that they are only the maintainers of the sales process. And it's the technical people with the technical pre-sale skills that do actually convince the customer and validate the fit whether Kona and the customer situation could actually play. So that's difficult.

19:24 I love it. That's a great awareness that you have because I think that you're right. There's a lot of salespeople who can kind of talk about the buzzwords and what's happening on the outside but with your particular product type, you do need someone very technical and with a personality which that combination is harder to find, right?

19:43 It is, it is definitely. And yeah, basically, the most difficult thing is the salespeople, they have this attitude, I want to close the deal. I'm the one who's going to close the deal. I'm the one who's going to convince the customer. Here with Code now, it's way more team play, you know, and the salespeople themselves, they have very little chances to actually close any kind of a deal.

20:11 Well, that's a great awakening. And I'm glad that you've discovered that because I do think that with a company like yours with a brand like yours and a background like yours, you really do just need to find that relative person who can mesh well with your buyers, which I'm guessing in most cases are gonna be CTOs, just product managers inside of a company. You're not selling to the director of marketing, you're not selling to the sales leaders, even the CEO most of the time. And so that's a really, really heads up move that you've done there in transitioning that. Good play.

20:47 We are still learning this kind of a combination, top-down, bottom-up, because at the end of the day, it's the developers who are daily users of the product. And when they are not happy, we are out of the game pretty soon. So even though if the product does fulfill the needs of the higher or upper management, if the developers and team leaders are not happy with the way how it works, it's not going to fly anyway. So in this sense, what we have to work with more is community building. That's something we can definitely improve.

21:24 I love it, I love it. Wow, Petr, what a fun conversation, what a great company. As you've been building and establishing yourself, I've got to imagine that the move from Czech to the Bay Area was not very easy. What were some of the big hurdles that you ran into and what have you done to overcome them?

21:45 Oh, well, so there is the, let's say, the legal part of the problem, you know, how to run the company, how not to get sued, you know, where to get proper insurance, what is the proper price for lawyers, you know, how to actually work with lawyers, etc. So there is ton of things you have to learn. And you have at the beginning you have very little kind of a how do you compare? So one hour of lawyer solving some kind of problem in Europe costs something. And then you get five offers, which are 10 times more in Bay Area. And then later on, you find out, well, most of them, it was a ripoff. And they were just abusing the situation that you're a foreigner, and you probably have no clue. So that's number one problem. The legal part and how to run it in a cost effective way. And then there was the personal thing, you know, so then you're suddenly alone, you know, you have no network, you have nowhere to go to. You have, uh, well, not that you have that many, that, that too much time, you know, to go outside, but, uh, but again, yeah, you need to socialize somehow. So, so to build the first basic network of people, that was also difficult. Uh, last but not least for me personally, it's traveling because I have a son back in Czech and I'm traveling there and back, you know, so frequent flyer program, definitely.

23:12 That's awesome. Well, that's hard. And that's hard. And how do you advise other people that are trying to break into the US market? I mean, it doesn't sound awesome. It doesn't sound easy. How have you been able to do it?

23:25 Well, I did actually luckily find guys from Inner Union, like a small expansion partners, which are focused on helping companies and they helped me pretty much. Without them, I would not build the first network of people, either the professional or the personal. So yeah, definitely go out and hire one of those companies. I would say that's the best way to do that.

23:55 Smart, smart play, very smart play. I gotta tell you Peter, this has been a fun conversation. I appreciate what you've been able to do and how you're doing it. Keep on moving this thing forward. And for those listening, this is one of those inspiring stories where it is, it's a big move to go international, but not impossible. And for most people, it can be the biggest blessing in their business to be able to expand and grow into multiple countries because you just never know the dynamics can change in so many different ways in different places and sometimes where you're making the most money becomes your biggest liability and the ones over here are untouched by the effects of what's happening in that other marketplace. So very, very creative. You know, Peter, who would you like to give a shout out today? Is there someone who's been in your circle who's kind of inspired you and motivated you to do what you're doing?

24:50 Well, sure, definitely. I mean, I don't know whether you know probably. Šimon Vostrý is a Czech guy who sold his company to Twilio and then was acting as a product director at Twilio and definitely smart guy helping me with a lot of stuff. Daniel Lynch, Silicon Valley based angel investor, also advising us pretty much how to do and how to correct the basic problems. So definitely these people, Lawrence Villanenco was an investor to one of my friends company that actually made it like four years ago to US. So these guys did actually help a lot.

25:28 I love it. It's so good to have that core group of people to network with and kind of guide you through what you're doing. And those that don't have a guide, you've got to get one. I mean, you've got to be thinking, Petr has mentioned a couple times this group, and now that we've got the names, thank you so much for helping him and getting that thing to help Petr get connected to the right people so that this networking can start, business can grow, and you find that you can actually run these businesses in multiple countries and find the success you're looking for.

Petr, I appreciate you being here buddy, and I appreciate you making the time to do this. I know you're typically in the Bay Area, but connecting with me from Czech, thank you. I appreciate you taking time to do this for us.

26:10 No, thank you for having me, Todd. It was definitely a pleasure. Yeah, thank you.

26:15 Awesome, and for the rest of you, take a listen, make some notes, add to the comments, and we'll catch up to you on the next episode of the Growth and Scaling Podcast. Thanks for being here.

26:25 Thank you, enjoy.