00:27 Hey, welcome back to the show. And today I am so honored to have with us today, Nicole, because Nicole serves the people I love. Nicole, tell us who you are and what do you do?

00:39 Well, thanks so much for having me first and foremost. I love that we both serve the people that we love. That's awesome. So I'm Nicole Grinnell, I'm the founder of Boson Solutions and we provide staffing, but I like to say we do it a little bit different because we are able to provide the level of staffing that every stage of business needs.

00:58 Right on, right on. Now what do you mean by that? Because everyone thinks that, hey, I'm in business. She must be serving me. What about these stages? Talk about these stages. What do people need at different stages?

01:09 Oh, it's completely different by where you're at. So I would tell you that, you know, when you're first starting out, we see a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners find themselves in the piece where they go, well, I either have to do all of it, or I have to save up to get that one employee, right? And then when I get that employee, I expect them to be everything from sales and marketing to accountant and everything in between. And that person in that skillset just doesn't exist in one person, right? And so, at that point, Stage fractional is an awesome model for you because you're really able to build out your team and the things that you need to grow without having to have the budget to bring in four to five full time people. So that's one level of it. And then you get to that small to mid size where now you're maybe able to bring in some people in house and you need some help recruiting. And we do flat fee packages for that small to mid sized business needing that all the way up to now you're at an executive level and you're looking for that next C level or VP and you need some help with that head hunting and we're able to support that as well. So all along the way, and we see people bounce in and out of different stages as they grow, we are able to support that.

02:19 I love it, I love it. And a lot of people in startup mode don't even really understand that there's a stage after startup. For those of you that are in that post launch mode and you're trying to figure out what to do next, this is the conversation you wanna listen to because Nicole is awesome at helping you understand where you're at so that you can get the right people in the right places so that the founder can stop being everybody. Is that right?

02:45 Exactly. And I will tell you how we typically do that is when they are in a next stage of scaling or growth, we really break down and say, okay, well, where is your time spent that you're revenue generating? And that can look very different. It can be when I'm in front of a client, networking, when I'm doing a bid, whatever that is. And now, okay, what's keeping you from being six to eight hours revenue generating? Well, I've got to send out my invoices, I've got to run payroll, I've got to do all this. And so that's the stuff that we start to begin to delegate and take them to that next phase of growth.

03:17 Right on, no, you just made me feel really guilty when you said it that way because I just thought through in my head, how much of my time so far today have I spent revenue generating? And it's about this much. I've been trying to focus on contracts, right? 

03:34  Well, it's inviting of us all. Yeah.

03:37 It's horrible, it's horrible. 

03:40 Exactly.

03:41 That actually is a fantastic question to ask and I love that you said that because it got me thinking and I hope those listening, I hope you're thinking about this. How much of your time is actually spent revenue generating in a day? What do you recommend it should be?

03:51 I mean, I personally think that if you're working eight hours a day, at least 80% of that should be revenue generating, at least 80%. I mean, that's how you grow, that's how you scale, and it can be done. I mean, I truly have to kind of look through your calendar. And when you start seeing those things come up that are not revenue generating or not, it doesn't even have to necessarily be revenue. Maybe it's focusing on a goal that you're accomplishing. Whatever that looks like for you, everything else can be delegated or put in priority that it needs to be.

04:24 Right, right. And I would dare say that even some of that revenue generating time should probably be allocated to setting up processes so that you can plug people in to take off those things from your shoulders. Does that sound about right?

04:37  It does sound right. And I'll go even one step further. You can bring someone in fractionally to set the process up. So as opposed to you trying to sit down and think through that and build it out. I mean, I have yet to build one of my processes. I delegate it. And whether it's, Hey, watch me do this. Record my screen, whatever that looks like. But processes are key. No doubt. Even that is a function that can be delegated.

05:04 I love that, I love that. Okay, this is all good stuff because a lot of the listeners of this audience are in that mode of, okay, I've launched, I'm making money, I kinda don't really know what to do next. Nobody tells me what to do next. They just tell me, get this idea, plug it into an avatar and go. And now they're thinking, how do I grow and scale my teams? Because a typical C-level person, it's gonna cost them 200K plus a year and nobody has that kind of budget when they're getting out of growth mode or out of out of launch mode. So how do you start this fractional discussion and how do they get in touch with someone like you that can walk them through the processes of doing it? How do you normally start the relationship?

05:48 Yeah, so typically what we see is, you know, clients are coming to us and they've maybe hit that breaking point, whether it's I can't go to the next stage or I'm currently feeling so overwhelmed. I can't even think of the next stage. And so much like we just talked with you is we really just kind of do a business consulting with them. Where does that stand? What is keeping you from where you want to go? And then we start breaking out those job descriptions with them. We're really pretty, you know, adamant about starting with one at a time. Let's not throw everybody at you and all of a sudden you're managing five people. We really want to start small. What are the things that you think are slipping through the cracks? And then we bring in that role. But additionally, we're providing a relationship manager so that we are there. A lot of our clients, this is the first time they've managed. They have no idea how to delegate, really don't know how to communicate. And, you know, we're all entrepreneurs. We go in, we're control freaks. We love what we do. No one can do it as good at us. Right. And then you slowly be able to begin to without trust. And what I tell people a lot is you might be surprised they'll actually do it better than you. And it's really not even indicative of you as the owner. But that's what they're focused on. So instead of you trying to do the gamut of things, they're able to really come in and say, you know, I am a bookkeeper. So let me be in charge of your accounts, receivable and payable, and make sure payroll is going out and all those things. 

07:09  I love that so much.

07:11 And so we kind of start small and build that out. And the relationship manager is there to stand by them and make sure that's growing.

07:16 I love that so much. And even if you are kind of good at lots of different facets of leadership, it doesn't mean that you should do those facets of leadership. And so I love that you said that with the bookkeeper. I mean, honestly, that's almost always the very first role I like to pawn off and what I'm doing in a startup mode. But there's other things that you should be doing too. And I had this discussion with my team just this week and trying to figure out, okay, I've got to stop being the bottleneck. And I think this is the conversation every CEO needs to have on a regular basis with their team is I feel like I'm bottlenecking X. How do we get me out of that? And actually bouncing that off your team is very interesting because a lot of them say, oh, you know what? That's something I'm actually really good at. And then you wonder, how did I not know that? You know what I mean? And so sometimes you find the talent from within, but sometimes you definitely need to look out. And so Nicole, what does that process look like? Are you a full, does your business do full head hunting or do you just have like a great team that can go in on these fractional basis? Or how does your team structure look? And let's talk a little bit about your business.

08:27 Yeah, that's a great question. So yeah, we get a lot of people that they come in kind of confused like, is this a typing pool situation? Am I just assigned somebody? But no, the answer is no, we are recruiting for you and your needs. So in that discovery call, we're going over who do you work best with? What are personalities that work great with your team? What are important to you in your culture and values? And then we go through the job description and then we take that to our recruiting team and that's what they're sourcing for you as the client. So we're essentially building out that job description of what you want that to look like. The cost savings and the benefit to the business owner is it is on a fractional level. So we are also on our side recruiting individuals that want to work on a fractional level as well. And we're essentially bridging that gap and supporting that relationship. Yeah. So no, it's no typing pool. It's not like, great, Bob, you get Susie. Bob, you get Sally. We wanna make sure that we are creating long-term. And I will tell you, our average is really anywhere from two to three years and I have some people that have been with their clients for seven years. So we want long-term relationship. 

09:30 Wow.

09:31 Yeah, I know, I know.

09:33 I love it, I love it. Now that is so cool. And I love that you're always approaching this from a fractional level. How often do the people just wanna hire them full time once they kinda get in a groove with what they are doing for their business?

09:49 Yeah, it does happen and we definitely have buyout provisions for that, which is great. I mean, nothing can be more of a compliment to us that we found the person that you now want to bring in full time and bring a part of your team. So we want to encourage that for sure.

10:01 So as you do these analysis with CEOs and these founders and you're trying to figure out what their needs are, what are some common sets? There's gotta be some like consistencies that you're seeing throughout this initial analysis for these guys. What are you seeing as a trend?

10:20 As far as like what's the hurdle? Yeah.

10:25 Like their needs. Yeah, what are the typical hurdles, what are the typical needs that they're shortchanging themselves on?

10:33 Yeah, so the number one hire I tell everyone is the first one if you have even if you have very limited budget is bookkeeping because you really cannot make decisions for your business. So you have a good financial picture. And it's a really nominal amount to have a good idea because you may be surprised good or bad with those results. So that's kind of my first recommendation if they don't have someone. And then it really gets into administrative. And a lot of times that can look operational heavy, that can look business development heavy. And what I mean by that is sometimes people say, I've got leads coming out the wazoo, but I can't get to everyone. I know I'm missing people. We have a term we say a lot that I guarantee there's money in your inbox, right? So we're gonna wanna source an administrative support that can lean business development. She can, you know, correspond for you in those emails and make sure those calendar appointments get set. She can do the followups for you. Whatever that looks like, we're gonna make sure that person is dedicated to that and not just what people think as a traditional assistant level. It really is a side-by-side team.

12:58  I love it. And are most of these teams, are these domestic? Are you doing any kind of outsourcing offshore? What does this depend on the role? What do you kind of look at there?

13:08 No, yeah, no, that's a great question. We only do US based. So international is great. It's just not our model. And there's definitely a time and place for it, but everyone is gonna look and feel just like you and your business. And what I mean by that is we're gonna source for time zones. We're gonna source for the client base that you're serving and who works best with that. So we want it to look and feel just like a team member that was in your office.

13:32 Love it, love it. All right, now I wanna take a step back because I love the content you just gave us. And I think that for those listening, I gotta think that you're thinking this is a pretty awesome conversation because these are things that you have to be thinking about right now. You need to be thinking, how do I pull myself out of these roles every day that I'm getting sucked into? And I find myself doing an exercise probably every two or three months where I look at what I'm doing on a day to day. I look at my calendar and I evaluate, holy cow, I just spent like the last two weeks solid on marketing and messaging. Should I be doing that? Or should I be doing more administrative things? And when you're getting sucked into the wrong places where a CEO should be, that's great if I was a CMO, but as a CEO, you shouldn't be doing that even though you may be passionate about it. How are you doing this in your business? I'm always curious with people like you. Are you, as this type of headhunter, fractional relationship manager, doing these things in your business? And tell us how that works.

14:41 I love to delegate. I mean, I think it is like the only way that you can grow. So it is I and I recruit that in my team. I want people that can figure it out, take ownership, come to me with ideas, you know, bring value to the table because I'm just very honest with myself. I don't have the time nor the bandwidth to be stretched so thin to be doing everything from marketing to accounting. I just don't. And so the fractional model has just worked really well. And we've now built two businesses this way because it allows you to still stay profitable, but be able to release those tasks so you don't fall into that cycle that you just described.

15:26 Yeah, yeah, it's so easy. It's so easy to fall into that cycle. And I think a lot of the times it's because we're, we continue to move down the path of people that aren't the right fit. How do you help your clients identify that? That is a big problem easy.

15:43 It is a big problem. So I always like to say, you know, we'll get clients that'll say, hey, I wanna do all the interviews. And I'm always like, you know, we are the experts in that. That's what you're paying us to do. So we're actually taking time and expertise off of your plate. Of course, if for some reason you feel like we have missed the mark, we will resource that. But people don't know how to interview. So a lot of what we see when clients are insistent on it is they get on and they talk about themselves. They talk about everything they've done. They talk about how great their business is. And then they walk away going, I don't know, I didn't really think Sally. And we're like, you didn't even ask Sally anything. So, you know, we really try to like, just like I go to an accountant and I don't come in and say, you know, Bob, I'd really like to do my own taxes this year. Trust us, trust the process. Trust that we have recruiters that are looking out for what you need and things that you probably don't even realize you need. And that's the person that we want to bring to the team.

16:40 Right, I absolutely love this. I love your model and I love the problem that you're solving. As you have started to grow and scale your business, you mentioned you love to delegate. What are some of the key things that you've found in your own organization that have given you the most relief from the burdens that you feel as an operator of your business?

17:03 Yeah, so I would say first and foremost like have a culture that Accepts and has grace for calculated mistakes and calculated risks So you really have to go in knowing like they're not gonna do it just like you they're not now That's the goal and they can learn it and they may have better ideas that come to the table but creating an environment where people feel okay to fall and To discuss that and obviously, you know, I mean within reason we need consistent mistakes But you know, I would rather someone all trying to think of a way to process a problem or have a solution than to be sit back waiting for me to bring the idea and me to bring the solution. So really looking for in fact, I just posted a LinkedIn I saw on Andy Stanley had done a thing. If you can hire doers over thinkers, hire the doer every time because you can teach a doer how to do you can't think or how to do. So you know, if you're recruiting for that 100% and I've seen it. 100%. So, you know, finding just a character, ability, work ethic that works for your team and your culture, and then really teaching and delegating the rest, I think you're just set up for success.

18:17 I love that. You know, I once had a guy on my leadership team who was a doer and didn't always know full scope of what we wanted him to do, but the minute we got done with the leadership meeting, it was just like, he was doing it. And I was like, no, hold on, hold on, hold on. We gotta talk the details. But I totally loved the fact that every time we had a meeting and there was a call to action, he was doing it by the time we finished the meeting. And I was like, you're the best. You gotta be careful what I tell them what we kind of want to have done. Don't want to kill the momentum don't want to kill the excitement, right?

18:54 Yeah, like don't want to kill your enthusiasm, but yeah, like obviously there's, you know, parameters have to be had in that, but that attitude is something you can't train. Right. And so, um, we have a saying you can't. And so we have a saying that I loved from an old boss, it was called speed of the leader, speed of the team. And I really believe in that, but you got to have people that are willing to stay at the speed of the leader, because if not, you're going to be frustrated, they're going to be frustrated and you're not going to hit the goals that you're hoping to accomplish.

19:22 Love it. Now, as you are building and growing your business, I know it doesn't all go perfectly smooth all the time. Tell us about some of the challenges that you've hit in trying to build an organization that literally is doing what you need for your own organization all the time. How does that work? What if some headaches you hit?

19:43 Yeah. Oh man. I mean, every business owner has them, right? So I think I'm a little bit lucky in that I kind of have this like honey pot of talent available, um, at my disposal and can kind of call on, you know, at any time, whether that's, um, but for sure, I mean, we've definitely had, you know, growth and scaling issues. I think the biggest thing that I've now reached, um, at we're seven years in is knowing when you kind of need to pause and maybe pull back. The gas, that gas breaks as an entrepreneur is like everything. Um, because I don't want to do anything we can't do well. And so when you feel like either we're stretched talent wise or finance wise, whatever that looks like, like it's okay to pump the brakes for a minute. And like level set and get yourself back in. I always say like, get your house in order and then you can go back out. But if you are flipping it to your team and they're losing their minds and everybody's stretched and you're no, you're not doing a good job, like. It's okay to pause, like work will still be there, but that takes a minute and it's scary as an entrepreneur to do that.

20:46 That is such good advice though, because I think that we have this tendency to just go, and if you're not pushing on the gas, somebody else is, right? But the reality is, is exactly what you said. Sometimes you gotta put the brakes on just for a minute, kind of evaluate what's going on, get a good read from the team, and if they all feel comfortable, then yeah, put the foot on the gas again. But if things are breaking somewhere in the middle, you've got to just evaluate, talk to your team, work through it, and go.

21:16 And I love that you said talk to your team because that's so important. I think sometimes business owners and myself included, you can get so head down in what you're trying to do or just drinking from a fire hose that you don't communicate that. And in fact, I'll tell you like, we're in a space of that right now. We've got some heavy growth and we're trying to manage. And I had a meeting with two of my team members today and I said, listen, there's a lot going on. I'm kind of head down focused on this. So I need a little grace that I'm not gonna be communicating as often. But just know this is what's going on. I will come back up for mayor, but when people are in the dark, their imagination goes wild. And so just keeping those open lines of communication so they don't feel like, well, I guess she just left. So just be open with your team. They want to be there to support.

22:01 You know, that is also really great advice. And I think that, you know, for those CEOs listening, I hope you're getting some good meat out of this because this is a very meat heavy discussion. None of this has been very fluffy. These are real challenges that you're facing and these are real things that you have got to just look in the eye and handle them. And if you're not good at hiring, which to be honest, most people aren't, find someone find someone like Nicole and find Nicole and just talk to Nicole about what she can do to help align your values, your type of business, your type of thinking with the right people that she has in her pool. Because you can't go too far down the path, three months down the path with somebody thinking that somebody is most of the time they don't, unless you get the right person in that seat, right? Nicole, am I right there?

22:57 Yep. I totally agree. You're totally right. Yeah. I mean, I, I'm a percent agree.

23:02 Now tell me the other thing though. This is something I see a lot as I've consulted with different business owners that are stuck. They're feeling stuck with revenue. They find themselves in these positions that usually they're stuck because they still, even though they made the hires, they still try to keep too much hold on everything. That delegation move or that role identifying, you know, I think that's almost as big of a problem as having the wrong person is you could have the right person, but you haven't defined the role. How do you help them define their roles so that the right person can step in and say, I know exactly how to fix these problems?

23:48 Yeah, no, it's defining the role and defining expectations and deliverables is everything, especially in a fractional model, because a mindset can kind of feel like, oh, they're gonna be there eight hours a day, and then there's frustrations that set in, and sometimes we have to walk through and we'll say, so what you're essentially contracting with us for and what you're looking at in this role is two hours a day. So it's an unrealistic expectation that they're gonna be available every time you slack, right? So let's talk through like, what are you hoping to accomplish when you Slack? Is it that you need an acknowledgement? And so we try to kind of get, there's a lot of psychology in that, in the delegation, right? So what is that core fear? My fear is these emails aren't gonna be answered. Okay, great. So how can we help that? Maybe we blind copy you, maybe we CC you on that. And then that trust is built. And now we remove that CC blind copy. And honestly, that's what we train our team members on as well, is like, this is a huge trust factor. So you need to be thinking about if you were in their shoes, just like, you know, the golden rule, what would you want out of this? Would you want to know when someone is logging on for the day and what your availability would be? Yeah, that would be very helpful. Would it be really great to send an end of week summary on everything that has been accomplished? It? Yeah, that would be really helpful. So we're trying to train both sides to communicate and understand how the other one is feeling in this relationship.

25:16 Right, without having it be a two hour meeting. Every time they check in. 

25:25 Exactly.

25:26 Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of solid meat. This, honestly, I would love to, I'm gonna do some special work on broadcasting this because this episode truly has so many good chunks of info in here for what leaders need to be thinking about, what they need to make their next steps, and Nicole, anything that we can do to run people your direction, I think this is such a valuable piece of growth and scaling. And plugging the right people in, especially on a fractional level, while you're in those interim stages of growth is so critical. And having someone like you that can help them place the right people not only helps your business grow, but also helps you identify things you didn't even know that you needed that you're going to need over the next year, right?

26:15  Absolutely, absolutely.

26:18 Love it, love it. Ah, Nicole, this is the best. So, you know, before I let you go though, this conversation's been super fun. There's somebody in your life, I'm guessing, who has been able to impact the way you've built this business and kind of either mentored or helped or maybe there's a group of people who would you like to give the shout out to today just to kind of give them a thank you to have helped you get to where you're at with your business growth.

26:44 It's funny, there's like so many people that come to mind, but I'm going to mention this only because I actually talked to him recently and him and I were actually talking about how valuable our relationship has been over the years. And it's actually a client of ours. His name is Mark Dolphini and he's in a business coach space, used to be in real estate, now is in this. And the reason why I say him is because he came on as a client with us about seven years ago. And we were both kind of at that same startup phase in our business. And he was so much more than a client to me. I mean, he was someone that I could call on and talk about growth and business problems. And he was there to support. And he has sent us so many clients, I can't even count, and connections and referrals and has just cheerleaded us and he's in a new space. And so we've kind of, we kind of feel like we've grown up together and been able to really bounce ideas and that's just a really valuable relationship to have someone that's in the trenches and being a business owner is kind of a lonely space sometimes and so to have somebody like that you can turn to and trust is awesome so big kudos to Mark for sure.

27:55 Love it. Thank you, Mark, for being that awesome. You gotta have those awesome founder-level clients who kind of help shape the direction you're taking your business and the services that you didn't even know meant the most, right? You gotta get that feedback.

28:09 When we were developing new packages, like he was the one I would call and was like, would this help you at all? What do you think of this poke holes in it? And always willing to give that. And that's like those survey monkey feedback that you can not get anywhere else, you know? And so I truly appreciate that about it. Yeah.

28:24 Totally. Love it, love it. Well, Nicole, again, thank you so much for taking the time to spend with our community and sharing these valuable insights. And for those listening, reach out to Nicole. We've got her info in the show notes below and LinkedIn profile, all that stuff. But definitely, if Nicole's too busy for you, which I don't, you know, I don't know. I mean, she's definitely scaling. She's in growth mode. But, you've got to have connections with the right people who know the right things that you need because sometimes it is lonely. We talked about the loneliness of being the CEO. It is lonely. And it's nice to have another CEO you can talk to that can say, you know what you really need right now is this role and this role really clearly filled in by somebody that knows how to do it, right? And I think that though, that little bit of advice is gonna save you so much headache and possibly years of your life given back to you so you can focus on the things that you're really, really good at. So Nicole, thank you so much for the time today. For any of you listening, please reach out to Nicole and find out what she can do to help you in your growth and scaling journey. Thank you.

29:36 Thank you, Todd. Thanks for having me.