00:24 Hey, welcome back to the show. And today I cannot wait to introduce you to my friend, Mariam, because she's gonna bring a whole new light to business growth that maybe you've never thought of. So Miriam, tell us who you are and what do you do?

00:37 Thanks so much Todd for having me, I'm excited to be here. Who am I? consultant, artist.I'm the president of the VRAR Association as well as some other engagements with boards and startups. So my work with Holo is really evolving art and the fusion of science, technology for the creation of generative IP. And that's a new term, I think, that means exponential innovation.

01:21 I love it. So before we dive into generative IP, tell us about you, your art. Like what you've been doing this for an awfully long time, at least the 10 years that you've been an adult. So tell us about your art. What kind of drew you into turning art into a profession and what did you create your business? What's its original intention?

01:47 That's a great question and I'd just like to thank you for your flattery. That's very much appreciated. Ten years. I've been creating art since I was three, so we might have to adjust the math. And I think really, 

02:02 Awesome. Well, okay, you're more than 13.

02:03 Right? There you go. It's the cream. So I think for me, art is a universal human, it's a human right. And my fascination with it was that it was the most transcendental language apart from music to be able to connect beyond the linguistic forms of language that we have. Hollow came to be as a result of looking at where we are currently at a global scale where culture is continually diluted by franchised exports of, I'm trying to say this delicately, but creativity and the imaginal spectra. 

02:56 Just lay it out there.

02:57 Yeah, it's just, it's becoming, while it's becoming larger, it's stemming from a very smaller pool. And so in that regard, Hollow was born with the curation of 72 of the brightest minds in the world from astro physics, astrophysicists, let me say, to quantum physicists, to artists, to artists who were previously astrophysicists, to architects who are artists, to neuroscientists who are artists, to creative strategists, patrons of the arts, collectors, creative technologists. So we have this massive pool of talent and a lot of energy and creativity in what we're doing together. is just magic, it's beautiful. And so, I don't know if that answered your question, but...

03:54 It definitely answered the question of your organization, but what about you? Are you a painter? Are you an - Are you - Tell us what - Are you sculpture? Creativity runs in so many different channels, but what's the thing that you feel like you're able to express yourself deepest in?

04:13 You know, it's funny that you asked that and I think for me, I like to live art. 

04:22 Interesting.

04:23 There's a Japanese concept of Satori and it's about incorporating art in every breath and every movement and every minute of every day is an art piece. And you are the painter and you are the artist behind that. So as creative director, let's say of my life, my background in the arts, I've done everything from working with metal sculpture, forging, you know, Buddhist mandalas, that was way back when I was not 13, but I was 14, to vinyl etching on glass, to printmaking, to painting, oil, acrylic, mixed media, sculpture. I've worked with stone, I've worked with brick. And then I've moved into concept art. So looking at using found objects in the spirit of sustainability and from there moved to digital art. So a blend of physical and digital art. And now where I find the most convenience right now, given everything on my platform is digital art. And digital art, Todd, is just an incredible way of tapping into the oracle of the imaginal spectrum, to be able to see things pop up. Like last night, I created one, I'm happy to share it with you later, a quantum poem. And part of that is a blend of poetry and linguistics and prompt engineering, but also understanding how generative AI works. How it crawls the web, what it responds to. So it's kind of like engaging in relationship with artificial intelligence for the evolution of AGI. I've written a piece on the evolution of AGI. And so it's tapping into that and doing a little bit of a psyche archaeology into generative AI by playing with it. So I see that as my current playground. I will say, I did.

06:29  I love it. I love it. And for those of you listening.

06:33 I was just going to say Todd, I will honor this that I did paint in the studio yesterday as well. So it's a process where mixed media and I think like yourself, you know, you have the podcast, you've got so many things on the go and they all inform each other. And so the way that you work with the brush and the paint and then the AI becomes another paintbrush.06:56 Well, and for those of you who are listening, I challenge you to go do some Googling of Miss Miriam here because she is incredible. I've had a lot of fun diving into some of her background and what she's, the organizations that she's a part of because I am a reluctant to admit I am an artist. I grew up working in ceramic artistry 

07:20 Really?

07:21 And I used to express myself through pottery wheel and sculpture. In fact,

07:25 Wow!

07:26 I was the guy that all the art majors hated because I was very clearly a business mind, but I loved tapping into my creative as well.

07:36 Beautiful. I'd love to see some of your work Todd. I didn't know that. That's fascinating

07:39 I would love to share it with you. Yeah, very, very fun stuff. Yeah.

07:44 Yeah, so I have a question for you Without taking over here I just want to understand how do you feel when you're shaping on the wheel and you know, you're you've got your hands Yeah, what does that feel like?

07:57  I'll tell you, I'll tell you because when you describe the type of people that you're working with, it resonated with me because you said astrophysicist, you said, I forget the other types, but they were definitely creators and they have to deal with taking existing matter and kind of understanding it and tapping into it. When I do ceramics, when I do pottery, there's no better feeling of taking an existing clump of substance and reshaping it into something that I feel is beautiful. And so I feel like that's where your whole business is tying into and you're tapping into that energy. I feel very much as a business creator, I've learned to express my same creativity in business. in that I take an existing model and I'm able to take it and twist it into something that makes more sense to me and looks more beautiful to me. And I think that's what my clients like is I'm able to dive into their business that's existing and say, I really like these parts, but this is this needs to be repurposed. This needs to be redone. And I feel like people that understand that business is an art and that when artists understand, that business can be looked at as a piece of creation, I think that those are the most successful CEOs, are the people that can look at an entire situation and say, I think this could be done more beautifully, or I think we can make this my style. And that's the type of creator, business creator that I enjoy working with the most. And that's why when I met you and looked into you a little bit, I felt like I've got to get this woman on a podcast because she, kind of exudes this, hey, whatever the medium is, we can make it serve its purpose better if we put the right energy into it.

10:03 Well, that's very sweet of you to say, and I think that the beautiful, beautiful imagery that you painted for us here with your hands on the clay and being able to shape it into something beautiful. And I think where I'd like to add to the visual is what we're doing at Hollow is inviting everybody to put their hands on the clay so that what we're doing is evolving art so that it's not the typical soul, you know, artist in the studio endeavor. It's a lot of people coming together to create something and the beauty is in the process of not knowing and not knowing in what that beauty will transform into as a different kind of beauty. And then we get into the philosophy and aesthetics of art and you know beauty, truth, wisdom and this return to the renaissance where we're creating a Florentine square for the cross -pollination of ideas of sciences, of arts. I love that metaphor.

12:43 Thank you. Thank you for asking the question. I rarely talk about it and I rarely, you know, I do have a Potter's wheel in my garage, but I'd rarely bring it out. My kids love it when I do, but it is a fascinating thing to tap into our creatives. And I really, for those of you listening that are founders or are creating a business right now, I think that you and I both, Miriam, could collectively invite you.to tap into the creative in your brain, in your heart. And honestly, there's a million people that could create the same business. But when you jump into an industry that you're familiar with and you actually tap into what means most to you, you'll find that clients will be attracted to that more so than competition because you are tapped into what matters to you. And oftentimes it matters to them.

13:36 Yeah, absolutely. And I love the point you made earlier about the creativity of leadership. And so I've worked for many years with Fortune 100 executives around creative leadership, artful leadership, looking at how we can introduce the concept of data perceptions. I have some IP around the process of creativity where we look at data perceptions, how are we perceiving our data points? Are our metrics accurate? We speak a lot about data -driven organizations, but is the data that you're collecting relevant, especially as we mine massive data sets? And then are they interpreted and weighted in a way that's relevant for the context of the time? Then we move into design thinking, so working with engineers as a linear process, ideation, prototyping. We move into systems thinking, how do we bring it all together? And then systemic innovation, how do we create pockets of innovation in an innovation lab or otherwise and integrate wisdom. So not just past wisdom, but also future facing wisdom. We can't always transplant the wisdom of the past into our current context. It has to evolve. And so as it evolves, this brings us to those quantum leaps of radical innovation. And so there's two artists that I think, might be relevant to mention here. One is Michelangelo and the idea of, you know, I see a piece of marble and I'm going to carve what's waiting. The other is Picasso, and you mentioned your children. I think our greatest educators in this space are children because they have tapped into their creativity in a very unassuming and liberated way. And as we grow, we keep putting parameters around that limits our ability to explore our creativity with fulsome joy. And so there's a book I'd like to recommend that I think would be relevant given the Oscars recently, why not? I mention it a lot because I think it's a seminal book. It's by Julia Cameron, formerly married to Martin Scorsese, and she talks about the artist's way. And this artist's way is all about connecting with your inner child, with understanding your childhood traumas, and I think it's incredibly relevant for business. You see a lot of family offices, you see a lot of executive teams, boards. There are, you know, certain things that bubble to the surface if we haven't dealt with some of those deeper rooted issues and that's in the management of scaling and growth, looking at how to maintain that culture of a startup as you move into the next phase.

16:27 Sure, sure. Sure. No, there is, you gotta get creative in being able to maintain that feel and that culture that you want to have as you grow and scale. Very, very challenging. But when you have a process like yours, it can be done. I would venture to say, and please send us a link to your framework or if you've got this in book form or however you like to present it, we'll put it in the show notes below for anyone that wants to go take a look at it and download it, please give that to us and please if you're listening, go check it out because chances are if you are in a growth motion in your business, you need a way, you need a mechanism to maintain that initial energy that you put into your business to create, right? And so beyond that though, Miriam, I wanna know about you and your business because I know you've got a framework and I know you've helped a lot of executives, but tell us. Looking back at these at least year or two of being an adult and growing your business, can you pinpoint any key decisions that you made in trying to go from, this is just my own little thing to something that you've been able to grow and scale?

17:40 You know Todd, my first instinct is to say it's luck. And the second instinct is to say, you know, just going with my gut. That has been something I've had to cultivate over the years. And I think it's really important to have that mind -body connection, that spirit, the breath. And that's why when I mentioned Satori, and I talked, you spoke about the different types of art. So the way that art informs the growth of the business is looking at, I did some Japanese calligraphy and it's an ancient art of ink wash, Sumi painting. And then I'm, you know, so I'll share a little story in Zen Buddhist temples, you have Buddhist monks who draw the enzo. Are you familiar with the enzo? It's like a circle. It represents the imperfection of perfection and you know, connects with the mood or the void. This is a practice, a daily habit, a daily practice, a discipline to go in and to draw this, you know, ink wash painting. And there's a lot of control with the water, with the bristles, with the ink, with the paper. And if I use that as a metaphor for the organization, it's to know how much water, how much ink, what pressure, and to do it in a seamless, it becomes like motion poetic motion it becomes a dance and this dance becomes effortless akin to breathing and that's where it becomes a natural kind of second instinct to your just inflow so if I were to you know dissect 

19:26 Kaki -gome

19:27 Pardon me?

19:28 Kaki -gome is another word for that in Japanese where they're writing their expression in one form of artistic writing that the characters do flow and there's a lot less separation between the strokes in the stroke order. It's a very artistic way to write.

19:42 Yes, so writing began in, you know, we had the papyrus and we had the etchings, hieroglyphs, and then when we moved into this form of writing, there's two pieces, and I'm just going to geek out on this for a while. One of the pieces I painted is about this, the order of space -time and the conceptual architecture of language kind of creating the boundaries for how we perceive reality. In Asian languages, we..then we have. and all of these directionalities. What it means though for me is the Han dynasty with the advent of writing moved into this calligraphy that was in many oriental cultures perceived as beautiful art. And so you'll see in a lot of homes you have you know scrolls and you have beautiful calligraphy on display. There's a evolution in the calligraphy, Shodo calligraphy, which is the poetic lyrical one where as you said the character flow into one another and then it turns into a like an image. And, you know, to finish off your question around the the organizational aspect of how do we set it up, I think part of it is, you know, another artistic metaphor would be like a conductor, an orchestra, a symphony, you know, having the right people being able to saturating the colors and it just comes together like an opera.

21:30 Now, I ask this question a lot, and that's a beautiful, beautiful metaphor. I could visualize it in my mind, and for those of you that are visualizing this with me, you're a unique breed of human, I think. There's a lot of people that will listen to this conversation, Mariam, and not really follow where we're going with this, but I think there's a huge set of undertones that you and I are talking about that the right people are understanding and they're totally tapping into this, and there's a lot of people that aren't. This is a very unique interview today, I love this. But I want to ask you, you know, in continuity of what we've already talked about. There are a lot of businesses that face challenges, unexpected things that drop into their laps that they're like, my gosh, what am I going to do now? Is this the end of my business? Is this the end of my journey? Tell us about an experience where you've had one of those moments where you thought, I wasn't expecting that, but you were able to turn it into something that benefited you and your business.

22:32 Well, thank you. As artist to artist, I felt the liberty to be able to go off script a little bit. I do sit across the table with a lot of linear thinkers. So this is not my typical way of, you know, speaking about the business. And I'm happy to go back to a little bit more of a conventional language and translate for part of your audience that may not be able to follow. 

22:57 I love it. Yeah. Right. No, no, I love it. I love it.

22:58 I think at the end of the day, what we're tapping into is our telos and our purpose and why are we in the business? Is it for a quick exit? Is it to have impact? Is it to be able to live out some sort of desire to prove something? And that's where we come back to the childhood manifesting on the global stage, especially with executives. I think where we have right now the opportunity to look at these moments of setback and failure as building grit, resilience. You've heard all of this before. It's really about flow of life where it comes and it goes and I think you have to find that inner core, that changeless part of yourself that stands as a pillar. I'm also a mindfulness practitioner so I use this mountain metaphor where you're grounded and you know business or no business if your business is your identity there's a different type of risk -taking. There's something else at stake. I know you have a number of children and so if your family is your identity, it changes the focus. And so for me it comes down to purpose, values, and the ability to have your eye on where you'd like to go and be humble enough for those moments where you do have those setbacks to say, well you know what, this is a readjust course or this is a, I'm gonna put this one on the back and move on to something else. And I think that's something that you learn over time. And it's not something that anybody can teach you or preach you or even try to, I'm looking for another rhyming word and I can't find it, but that's okay. Would have been, would have been, would have been lyrical. Right?

24:45 Would have been awesome. That would have been on a short or a reel for sure.24:50 I was thinking beseech you, but that didn't really fit, so we'll leave that for now. I think what we're doing here, 

24:58 You're getting Shakespearean on me

24:59 Right? And really, it comes down to, as a founder, have you put in place the support systems that you need? Do you have an advisory board? Do you have outlets for people who are not at all connected to your business that you can have some sort of raw feedback about where you are? You have a tendency, I think there's a there's a there's a real there's a reality where people fall into a bubble and when you're in that bubble especially in certain positions you're surrounded by people who are moving forward with their own you know whatever it may be and then there's a there's a there's a there's a glitch in the feedback. And if you want to fix that glitch in the feedback loop, I think you have to diversify your feedback, like the 360 feedback, your children, your dog, your neighbor. And then you start understanding a little bit more about yourself. Self -awareness goes up. And so when you have those moments where you think, the challenges, of course, I faced them recently even, where I had to take a timeout. And that was a signal for me, I'd like to take a time out, to take a step back, to come out of the bubble, ground myself like the mountain, and then come back.

26:21 Well, this is something that you're speaking my language because I encourage founders to do this often. In fact, I recently just started a whole advisory board community where people who are not connected in their industry, not connected in their vertical, to reach out and connect with other founders, operators and understand that, hey, I'm looking at this kind of goofy. I'm totally stuck in my in my rut and everyone around me is in the same rut and nobody can tell us what's over the edge of the rut. You know what I mean? And so I think that you're speaking truth in what you're saying completely. And if you're a founder who's struggling to understand why you're stuck in a rut and you're not getting into a growth mode, it's likely you just need to take a step back, reground yourself on the mountain, talk to some people who are on the came up on a different trail and they're telling you, look, we're seeing the same need, but you're seeing it very different than the way I did, you know, and I think that makes such a difference.

27:28 Absolutely. Yeah. And I love that you did that. You know, several years back, I was invited to facilitate a global forum for CEOs. And I thought that peer mentorship model is something that I worked with in higher education as well. And I bring it into the corporate teams I work with where we have leaders of different sections, you know, coming together and realizing, Hey, the problems I'm facing as a newly minted leader pretty much the same as the ones that you're facing. And so when we have this kind of collective brain power, that's where the exponential, you know, beauty happens. The one thing I did want to mention in Todd is that we have a few things coming out with Hollow Art. One of them is our encyclopedic book. It's a catalog, 500 plus pages of the top minds in the world from cultural anthropology to AI to pioneers and brain computer interface to quantum physics. Head of Innovation at CERN has something in there. The guy who Elon Musk called the father of everything or the inventor of everything has submitted the piece, the founder of SuperTourine Computers. I mean, it's just, it's brilliant. It's got art, science. I'm excited about it. And I think something like that, 

28:44 Share me the link. Yeah.28:45 I will, we're doing, we're taking pre-orders now. And then we've also built, I call it the next level Bugatti, you know, AI. patented AI corporate services. So these are select patented AI companies that will exponentially accelerate your innovation maturity. So the grid is around innovation maturity within an organization. It may take several years. My background in change management brought this to the to the fore. And these are companies who've worked with Manchester United, the top athletes, 1 % pilots, Navy SEAL 6, Navy Team SEAL 6. It also helps employees augment their cognitive capacity by 135 % and then collective intelligence for decision making. So that's one other piece. And then we have our groundbreaking art and space collection, Todd, that was sent to the International Space Station aboard the NASA SpaceX mission and then be back down to earth and that'll be going on sale as well. So there's a few others. Maybe I'll just tease one last one, which is a quantum timepiece. We're taking pre -orders for a limited edition of 10 luxury clocks and sculptures. So you asked about sculptures, but they marry art and science. So it's cutting edge art, cutting edge science, and they both appreciate over time.

30:20 I love it. Love it. I love what you're doing. I love and I'm going to, 

30:30 I can keep going but I'm gonna stop. You let me do that. So thank you.

30:31 well, just give me as many links. Give me as many links as you want. And we're going to tap them in down below because I really feel, I felt for a little while now, just watching my kids mature and some of them are adulting now. And, and I regret not tapping into my creative in front of them or with them as much as I, I wished I would have when I, you know, before I had any kids. And I always thought it'd be a bigger part of my life. And so I love what you're doing. I love how you're tapping into these things and also drawing them out of people who should be tapping more into them. And so you've got a great work ahead of you and you've done a great job so far. Before we end this, though, I want to know, Miriam, who's your shout out? Is there somebody in your corner, somebody that you kind of lean on to to keep you grounded on your mountain? And would you like to give them a shout out today?

31:20 That's a really great question Todd and I think at this point I give a shout out to everybody who's touched my life in a meaningful and impactful way I typically mentioned my kids and I think We're transformed every day in ways that we aren't aware of until the transformation takes place I have some homework for you though. Can I give you some homework Todd? Is that a first? Yeah?

31:46 All right, hit me, hit me, hit me.

31:50 All right, so I loved what you said about the kids. And I don't know if I mentioned this, I can't remember. We have a child on our board intentionally. So on our advisory, an eight -year -old sits to provide insights. And one of the first projects we did, we unanimously, we took suggestions from, we also have an AI on our board. We took suggestions from an elderly, elders, I would say. I was going to say elderly sages, but really elders. And so we took suggestions from the entire team and wouldn't you know when we did a blind idea. The idea by the time it was just mind blowing. 

32:39 Sure. I love it.32:40 And so my homework for you, what if you created a piece and you put that in the link afterwards? Cause I'd love to see this kind of, you know, interchange come to life. We're creating quantum art right now. What if you created a piece with your children, all of them, and you had one piece and you all helped shape it. And that becomes your family heirloom, your family crest, your, you know, that could be a gift from the podcast that you can maybe share with me and I would love to see that come to life. And it's a way of sharing your creativity with your children now. I don't know if that's imposing. I'm sorry if it's too much, but are you willing to give it a try? Yeah? Awesome. I'd love that.

33:22 No, I'll take the challenge. I'll take the challenge. I'm willing to give it a shot. Yep. Yep. We'll see what we can come up with. I think this will be fun. Awesome. No, we'll definitely do it. 

33:26 Can't wait to see it. Thank you so much for having me.

33:30 Thank you. And I will put a link as soon as I get that done. I think it's a fun challenge. So thank you. And for those listening, honestly, this has been a slightly different than normal conversation, but I think it's important. I think it's important to know that growth and scaling isn't just a matter of numbers and metrics, it is a matter of unleashing your creative and kind of letting that be part of your creative in your business. And so I appreciate you bringing this out, Miriam, and I appreciate all the connectivity that we've had today. And please, please re -listen and re -listen and share this with people that need to hear it. Mariam, thanks so much for your time today.

33:10 My pleasure, thank you so much for having me Todd, this is fun.