00:57 Hey, welcome back to the show. I am so excited today because we've got a true artist with us.  I'm going to let you go to town. Tell us who you are and what do you actually do?  

01:08 I'm Lewis. I'm the CEO of Catapult Print. We actually, uh, we manufacture mainly food labels that we supply across, across America. 

01:18 Okay. So you're a label print shop. 

01:19 Yep.  Sexy, hey? 

01:22 That is so sexy. 

01:27 It's done a little bit differently though. 

01:28 Yeah. Yeah. Talk to us because you are not, when I go to your website, it does not look like you're a print shop. You look like you're literally a museum taking me on a journey through some artistic, uh, uh, production facility. And I want to know who are you actually targeting and what is it that you saw was a problem that you thought you could solve with this business?  

01:52  So we're targeting food manufacturers, mainly food and beverage. And if you walk the outer perimeter of a grocery store, you'll see a lot of catapult labels. That's basically our, our, our customer base, um, highly perishable items, uh, fluctuating demands, uh, or, uh, the sort of target base of customer we do. I mean, um, the reason we. Sort of came into this, especially in America, obviously a long way from where we was from England originally. Um, but right prior to this, we owned a design and brand agency, so we were dealing with all the print base across America, and, uh, we, we saw a massive opportunity. We felt it was being done poorly in, uh, poorly from the printer base that was here. We saw an opportunity to do things a little bit differently and improve things.  Uh, that's how we came to be sort of catapult where we are today.  

02:42 I love it. Uh, and truly you've catapulted. Uh, I love you've got a little map of your distribution channels, um, on your website, but you guys are all over the place here in Canada, you're in all over the States and a little bit in the motherland. Are you, are you in England as well? 

02:57 We have offices in the UK. So, um, some of our teams are in the UK, all manufacturing's in the US and all of our customer base is in the UK. Either us a little bit in Mexico and a little bit in Canada Um, but we do have um some of our offices in the uk.  

03:12 I love it Now, I mean honestly a lot of people are kind of hearing this conversation going. Okay food packages, uh, that's not the coolest thing, but it is it is big like it's a Huge consumer base. What kind of, what kind of, uh, food processing manufacturers are you guys attracting and who thinks their labels need to look better than the way they do in order to get picked? 

03:37 Yeah, it's something you don't realize as a, as a, uh, until you're involved in it. But it's a, there's a big impact on buying, buying, um,  demand and why you make the purchasing decision at shelf. So, um,  large, we mainly focus on a lot of the large brands, tier one companies, tier one and tier two. So large,  large produce manufacturers. Um,  and it's, uh, for us, obviously in this industry, yes, it's about the quality of label, but it's also about the service that we can provide. Uh, that's very important to the, uh, to our, our customers. Cause labels is the, it's the lowest commodity on the, on the package. Cause obviously the food's very important or the drink and the. The container that it's in and the label, but at the same time, it's a juxtaposition because the label is also the most important because it can't be sold without the label on it because it's, it's what holds all the nutritional and all the legality information as well. So it's, it's a very important in that, that, uh, for that, for our customers and their service to their customers. 

04:41 Not going to lie. Um, it was interesting. You say that because, you know, we were just, uh, I was out at the grocery store with my wife the other day and we were getting some little flavor packets. First, we like to make smoothies in the morning. And so we got these little flavor packets and we ended up buying the generic brand  because their label looked better. And I was like,  I was kind of shocked. I was like, wait, that's the generic. And she's like, yeah, and we both looked at it. We turned it around and we're like, that looks great. And it's cheaper. I'm going with that. I don't care how much it costs. It looked better.  

05:16 That's how I buy all my pasta sauces. I feel like the pasta sauce is where you look at it and you go. That looks clean and nice. And that's how I make all my purchasing decisions. 

05:23 Totally. Totally. We are, we are visual buyers and especially when it triggers an emotion. So, so you saw as you were, you were doing marketing, uh, and you were helping these brands kind of get into the stores. And now you saw this opportunity to develop a better way of printing a better way of representing their products in a store and you jumped on it. Is that, am I following you? Right? 

05:47 Yeah.There was the visual aspect of it, but also we was, while I was working with these brands on the other side, on the design side, we, we saw not only the visual execution of what the design agency wanted was lacking, but also in the, the service elements to the supplier, the lead times. The, the price, the, um, the, the way that the printers were engaging with the customer, making it hard to get what they want. So there was the quality component, but also the, the service elements as well. We really thought we could revolutionize and disrupt the print industry.  

06:20 I love it. I love it. And you've been, you've been doing this for six and a half years. I would imagine, you know, triggering that growth that you've seen in six and a half years, especially during. Such a weird, weird time in all of our history, uh, and, and store purchasing. And  I mean, you've, you've been through a lot and you've grown significantly year over year. Talk to us about, as you look at your own brand's growth, were there any key decisions you made that were like intentional that led to something amazing happen in your growth? 

06:52 I think, I think that's, it's hard because, uh, I think the growth and where we stand today comes from a culmination of lots of great decisions. The  pinpoint wanted, but I think a couple of things that are critical is our, our desire to innovate. I think we came to market and said, um, I think print is very, uh, some elements have been left very much. If you walk into a print shop 30 years ago, not much has changed when you walk in there today. So I think our, our desire to invest in technology and sort of build a unique model and how we manufacture and produce that product for the customer. I think if. If you could say one thing, it's just that bringing that culture and that DNA of like, we're going to innovate and we're going to find ways to do this better, I think is why we stand and we're in the position we are today. 

07:40 So, so, so pause there for just a second, cause I have questions about that. So, so you not only came in to make things look better, but are you actually doing the process different than it was, like than it is on most, on most, uh, products?

07:55 Yeah, we we've, we've streamlined and simplified and, um, been able to do things a little bit differently,  obviously nothing alike, but a little bit like Tesla with SpaceX, right. They've  still building a rocket, but they've reduced the time. It builds the cost. The simplicity of building a rocket has been revolutionized. So. It's a little bit similar on a much different scale. We're not comparing ourselves to obviously to SpaceX, but, um, it's similar. 

08:23 We, we all do it in our own heads. We all do it. You're, you're not guilty. 

08:26 No, but we, we manufacture, we've, we've been able to streamline the manufacturing process to deliver a more cost effective and quicker product to our customers.  

08:34 I love it. I love it. Okay. So, so here you are, um, you're simplifying. What else are you doing? How, how are you, are you, are you making it simpler to be purchased. Like, are you, is your client acquisition model is, is it different than most? Like you gotta be doing something different because to grow the way you have in six and a half years in a fairly competitive environment, what are you doing, what else are you doing different?

09:01 Well, I think the, uh,  I think the, uh, I lead times make a big difference. So the marketplace averages four to six weeks for customers.  Yeah, we average five days. So what, yeah. So we can turn your product and a lot of our customer base we're delivering next day to, uh, we're able to, 

09:20 You gotta be kidding me.

09:21 No. So that's a big thing. If you think about in a, 

09:26 That's huge. 

09:27 Yeah. And a product that's consumable shelf life. Our, our customers are, uh, like a big produce manufacturer, for instance, they're at the mercy of Walmart. They, some weekends it gets put on, buy one, get one free. Um, they don't expect demand to go through the roof.All of a sudden they're coming on a Tuesday, on a Monday, Tuesday morning, and they've, they're out of labels. So the fact that that ability support and service, I think is critical. Uh, I think that is  A big part of a growth, but, and then the other parts is we've done that, but there's no sacrifice. The quality it's not at the cost of quality. More cost competitive than our competition. So we can almost give the customer a sweetie shop. And, um, my dad,  yeah, cause it comes from a dad. My dad, my dad comes from a, he's a salesman at heart. He's just comes from a sales background. He only cares about customer and he will always tell you, he wants to be, he wants a sweetie shop for sale sales to go sell. So as a customer, anything you want.  

12:02  Right, right. No, there's definitely an advantage when your product, when your product does, does has features that nobody else can offer. I mean, cutting lead time down, uh, that is a massive sales incentive. Uh, it makes it a lot easier to sell when you can say. No added costs. We get it to you in two days or less or five days or less. That that's a big deal. 

12:22 Yeah. Yeah. It's massive. And I think, um,  the, the, the biggest issue we have to cut through is everyone promises, promises it in our industry. Everyone will ring up any customer that they're trying to sell to and promise. Oh, we can do it quicker. We can do it more cost effective. We got great quality. Everyone sells the same thing. So our biggest hurdle we have to overcome from a selling perspective is that we actually do do it. And we got to, we got to break down and barriers of the, to build the trust and belief that it is done because they've been burnt so many times. 

12:58 So talk to me about that because this is a, you know, anytime anyone jumps into an industry, this is established as that industry is, and wants to disrupt things a little bit, it's, it always comes a little bit of risk. It always comes with a little bit of fear because  is it even possible to pull this off the way you think you can do it? Um, what kind of, what kind of challenges were you facing with manufacturers thinking, dude, there's no way you can do this because, Otherwise, everyone would be doing this right now. Like, was that a challenge or what, what are the kind of things were you facing when, when you told customers you could do it that fast? 

13:33 Yeah, I think, especially in the early days, it was a challenge. Um, we're lucky that, um, I think we're lucky that there was such a, there's such a desire from the customer base for a change. I think, um, there hadn't been much change coming to our industry. So I think we were lucky that there was not, we're not trying to force a customer base to change. I think they was. Begging for change, not necessarily from us, but just in general and some of the standards in the industry. So I think that is very, um, very helpful, but obviously the biggest, the biggest challenge we had starting up and through this journey has been, even as we stand today, we're at a 65 ish mil, uh, revenue. But we're still a small player. We're still a small component. It's a huge industry. The addressable market sell to is 6 billion. So we're still a very small market share. So I would say that our, our biggest challenge probably still today is just that, uh, we're still a new player in the game and we're still up and coming. And we still, um, we're still not. We're not a household name. Should we say we have to, we have to work and we have to make sure everyone understands the value that catapult can bring.  

14:40  That's pretty awesome. I, I'm, I'm curious as you, as you target your niche, I mean, you say 6. 5 billion industry. I, I totally believe it. How are you at 65 million targeting? How niche are you? Like, are you specific food types? Are you packaging anything? Like out of the ordinary, or are you like, what do you see the market most easily fitting into your current pattern? 

15:06 Our, so we're very boring. Our market is a, an element in some elements. So what we've been very good at and what we all believe in and catapult is we're very good at being focused. I think, um, so many businesses try and become everything to everyone. We've always believed in someone. So we're very disciplined. Um, when we came to the sector that we play in. It was critical for us that we, um, we, because we go to it and we disrupt, and we're going to do it differently and we're going to do it better. Um, we've not gone to other sectors too much or other packaging types, although we could, and we've got a customer base that asks us to, because when we go, we're going to go and disrupt properly. So, um, we're very. Very sort of standard labels, your produce labels, your juice labels, your bleach labels, or that send store pasta label is that very, but we are more focused on, um, not necessarily type of label. It's more about the needs of the customer. So for us, for instance, um, that you think about our model, it's been built around speed. Um, obviously we're competitive on price and quality is not a sacrifice. You'll have high quality with that. So for us, it's more around them, um, high volume, highly consumable, highly fluctuating demands that need that incredible service. To support them. Like we all know at grocery stores, demand is fluctuating all the time. It's pressure items. And that's where we more focus our folks; our efforts on selling to them types of customers is where our model that we've built is strongest.  

16:38 So, so pause there for a second, because I want to kind of deep dive into what you just said a little bit. Because I feel like  most people listening to this podcast have a problem with saying yes too often and and what you just implied in a lot of what you talked about in this segment has been, um, You're hyper niche you do this thing. You're not even with the same clients. You're not saying yes to every one of their print needs. You're saying nope. These are the things we do really well right now We may dive into that later, but we're not doing it. How do you do that like walk us through that because I think everyone fears that if they say no to a client, they're not making them happy? How do you make them feel happy with what you're doing? 

17:25 I think with transparency and honesty, I think we passionately care as a business and we, we, we came to this market to, we truly believe in that. We wanted to revolutionize print. We didn't like the way it was being done in America; this is what we saw. So we came to market passionate about actually doing things differently. So I think it's that ethos in us all in our business to. disrupt, do it differently. So when we can't, if we're, we will never put our name to something that It's wrong. So for instance, we will write from the get go. Um, it would have been very easy in the early days to sell to brokers. We wouldn't do it because we, we believe strongly in our value offering and offering value to the customer and being a true partner to the customer. So I think we just, it's just that we're able to do it because we believe so strongly in our unique way we produce the product, the unique benefits that we can give to the customer. So if we can't deliver that for a customer, It doesn't feel right to us because that's why this business is here. And it's why we came to market. It's what we passionate about delivering every day. So I think for us, it becomes very easy, easy to do.  

18:33 That's interesting because I feel like myself included when I've got a good customer that loves what I'm doing for them and they ask me to do like something that's not on my, on my product list.  I almost always find a way to say yes, and that's a huge problem with me. Um, how do you stay disciplined? Like, how are you, how are you able to just say. We're not there yet, but  it's coming possibly in the future. 

19:01 Yeah, and it, and it, and it will come in some of these sectors, but  when we go, we're going to do it properly. We're going to, we're going to attack the marketplace the same way we attack labels. Um, I think it's easier to do when you're being successful, right? It's easier to do when you have a big runway in front of your other potential customers. It's much harder to do if you're, you're selling to 10, there's an opportunity to sell to 10 different customers. So to turn down one on something that would be incredibly difficult. So I think, um, I think it's easy for us to do in some ways because there's so much runway in the markets that we are playing in the sector that we do sell to. We're having so much traction. And there's so much more opportunity there to do. And so, and we, we also never want to harm; look, when you scale, you've got to; you've got to be very; we're scaling fast, right? And we've scaled up from a startup. You've also got to be disciplined, uh, in some of our areas because you never want to harm the business you are. You have got, I think we're big on; you'll hear that simplicity is big for us, but also focus is critical. I think focus. So anything that could distract us or create a not level of focus that we want to harm—what we've built and the current customer base, we never want to do that. We never want to deliver a new product for a customer and be start to fail on his existing product that we built that relationship with. So I think,

20:30 And It is a lot of that based on, um, your ability to produce it, or is it just, you don't want to mess up something that's already working because I mean, In my head, what I'm thinking,  what I'm thinking of,  yeah, go ahead.  Go ahead. 

20:46 Yeah, sorry. So it's our manufacturing beliefs. We, I mean, um, as I said at the start, we, we've built a unique model. We've been able to simplify and streamline the product offering. So our sites are built very bespokely to service that product offering that we're currently delivering. So for us, as we scale out and as we do things, we, there is opportunities to To do that because of our manufacturing beliefs and the way that the efficiencies and the way that we are streamlining to deliver the product that we're delivering, it's more around at this stage. Um, we don't want to sort of start we're very, we, I believe in one way streets in our manufacturing process. That's why we're so fast. So it's like going down a one way street that you can't, you can't turn back on yourself. And that's how our site is very much such high volume to move so rapidly and so efficiently. Like. So what we wouldn't want to do is start now going, right? I'm going to put a junction there and another road there and another road that it'll slow everything down. So absolutely. But it's just because of our manufacturing principles and beliefs that we offer that value in that simplicity and service that we can offer. 

21:56 I love it. And it's very, it's very evident that you're keeping people happy, you know, with your growth rate that you've got, it's, uh, it's gotta be exciting, but. I love your humility and looking at it as this is a massive industry. And we probably aren't even a recognizable name amongst the big players. Is that kind of where you're looking at it?  

22:13 Yeah. Uh, and we, we, we like being the underdog. We like, uh, we almost like not being, I wouldn't say known. I think we're known, but we almost like being the household name. I think we love proving; we love proving the value that we offer. 

22:30 So, so talk to me about, you know, a lot of, You know, as you know, in the past 10 years, 15 years, even 20 years, um, so many digital product based companies exist and overhead is, is really people as opposed to hardware and machinery, um, jumping into print. That's a very cost heavy business in terms of purchasing the equipment. Where are you going to station it around the country? You know, what are you going to put in your storefronts? Where are you going to put it? The home base, like walk us through that. Because I think that those who are dealing with, um,  uh, uh, a product based solution that you're doing with all those upfront costs and your ability to scale the way you have. What kind of things have you done to kind of balance your, um, your balance sheet? I mean, you've got heavy assets, you've got  revenue growing, but every time your revenue grows, you got to buy more of this asset base. How do you juggle that? What does that look like from your perspective?  

23:37  Yeah. Um, I mean, um,  looking back now, you have to be, I think, like a lot of entrepreneurs, you're, you're, you're so passionate. It was also passionate about the product and coming to market that you become a little bit snow blind to some degree, especially in the early days. Um, whereas I think nothing starts. I think lots of entrepreneurs will say that if you looked at the realities of stuff, no business would ever, we've ever started. You have to have a little bit of blind faith. And we, I think it's fair to say any financial advisor looked at it when this won't work, it's impossible.  We obviously disagreed as well. Because like you say, it's a  capex is a cost heavy. Yeah, it's, uh, it's a tough, but, um, for us, obviously  we're able to, we're able to sustain it and deliver all this ourselves for a few key things.I think one, we've got incredible partners that supply, I think our suppliers, it supplies a lot of our products are incredibly been incredibly supportive. I think they  definitely, even from the early days believed in the model that we was building have backed us. They've, They've been a big supporter in catapult being successful whether that be the aggressive terms. They've offered us which No young business would be offered or the, uh, the equipment and support and equipment and all these areas. I think our partnership for our supplier base have been critical and we believe in that passionately, um, and building that, building that to be a successful business. Um, I think the other, I think  we're very, uh, on the flip side that we're very data, although we're very, we're juxtaposition all the time because yes, we are customer driven 1000 percent we're growth driven. But I believe we have, uh, we've coined the ability to, to be all areas driven. So we're also very data centric and very financially driven, but not at the effect of service or customer. So obviously we are, we're very structured. The fact, the fact that we can deliver a product so efficiently also allows us to be a very cashflow positive business allows us to keep investing in the, in the growth, and we need that because if you, if you take this year, for instance, every month has been a record revenue month. 

25:51 Is that right? 

25:52 We've broke the revenue record from the previous month. We're about to 

25:57 That's gotta feel so good. 

25:58 Yeah. And we're about to break it again today, hopefully. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's very positive, especially if you, in our market, the minute our market and average is about 10 to 20% down in volume. So the fact that we're. Growing at these rapid rates, um, is critical, but I think  a business never fails with too much sales has always been our philosophy. Um, but that always, always helps. And just disciplined, disciplined decision making and that, and that's where we bring back to our question you asked before, these are where you have to be disciplined, right? Because it's easy to go, a customer wants that we're going up, we're investing even more money and we're going over here and we're going to do this because of that, that same discipline nature. Yes, we are growing fast. Yeah, we're very streamlining where we're rein and how we're reinvesting our cash and we're very focused right, and decision orientated in that. So we're not getting, like, not getting excited by new shiny toys all the time that we're going and, um, we're going and investing CapEx into.

26:54 And that speaks to your team. And, and I think that's, that'd be the last thing I wanna kind of address with you.  Um, so many businesses get stuck in their growth stages by being too owner dependent, uh, being too, um, fixed on the mindset of the founder, as opposed to a founder, bringing in really smart people around them and establishing a good protocol of communication so that they are good at what they do. You're good at what you do and you kind of get out of their way. Walk us through your journey and doing that. I know you cannot get to where you're at being super owner dependent. So, so what have you done to kind of build that environment and that, that, uh, healthy culture where that happens? 

27:40 I think, um, think a few things.Think number one is we never, we never, we never started this business with the intent of being like a family business. It's just grown. It was very much started intentionally from the get go. We felt it was a massive opportunity. And even as the position we stand today, we're nowhere near where we're going on our journey. I think even when we first started, we almost set it up with the infrastructure in mind and the way we set the business up in mind, not to be like a sort of, it's not a family shop that sort of just growing and expanding. And now how do we pivot? So we started with that mindset right from the get-go. Um, I think for us, values has always been critical. Um, Bowie's so critical because what values actually do in culture, they allow people to have freedom in decision-making freedom into, um, be a part of something that you don't need that overzealous owner that needs to make the decision. Cause when you instill the right culture and the right values into your business, yeah, everybody part of it from, I think we're always big on that. You, There's people on our shop floor. There's people that pack boxes all the way up to the senior management team that understand exactly the vision, mission, the strategy, the values of catapults, where everyone can be a part of that. I think that's, that's critical. Um, obviously bringing in the right people is also always very important. And, um, my job is to arm them with a strategy. Uh,  strategy on  them with the vision, the mission, and we're big on roadmaps for individuals to have their roadmaps and plan out the next 12 to 18 months and then give great people their freedom to go be a part of help build, but play their part in building different cornerstones of catapult. And that's how we'll be, we'll all be more successful if we're working together towards a strategy rather than just me driving the business. 

29:30 For sure. I think that's awesome. And I appreciate you sharing that because. I do feel like so many companies, uh, have a founder led business where the founder hasn't thought about what you're talking about, about from the get go, recognizing this is not the family. This is not the, this is a business to make money. We are out there to make a profit. We're out there to make an impact and we're going to plug the right people in where we need to. 

29:57 Yeah. 

29:58 And a lot of people don't do that. 

29:59 No, I think we're so driven. I think we truly, we truly are passionate about what we came to market to do. So it's not just about me or the people it's about; it's about the value and about what we're trying to create here where, uh, we're more, we're all passionate about that and we're all part of that first and foremost. I think that helps as well, um, build the infrastructure out correctly because you're just always trying to drive this business on.  

30:26 I love it. I love it. What a fun interview. What a fun business and and honestly Um, I really appreciate taking the time to talk to our community because I do believe so many people want to get to where you're at, and I know that you want to get to where your next, you know player in your in your industry is. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing these insights, because I really feel like what you shared not only shows the, the structure, the infrastructure and the, and the mindset of your business, but it shares with other people that they, they have to get out of their way. They have to understand that the business is more than just one person. They've got to see that, that it can't grow the way you're growing. Without awesome experts being plugged into the right spots. I appreciate that. 

31:10 Absolutely. Thank you so much.  

31:12 Well, I can't wait to see you grow. Do you guys, uh, do you guys tag your labels anywhere with your, with your brand? Are you totally the silent partner in all these relationships?

31:22 We are very, very silent, but loud on social media. 

31:25 I love it. Awesome. Well, we're going to put links to your social so we can see what you guys were up to. And, Lewis, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. And, uh, we'll catch up with the rest of you on the next episode. Thanks, Lewis.

31:39 Appreciate it. Thank you.