01:07 Hey, welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to have Gareth with us. Gareth, you've got an amazing company, Vecta. Will you tell us who you are and what do you do?

01:16 Yeah, great to be here, Todd. I am Gareth Evans. I am a family man, adventurer and CEO of VECKTA. And VECKTA is the energy transition software platform and marketplace. And we are streamlining and modernizing how businesses around the world deploy onsite energy systems. And we can get into what that means as we play this out.

01:37 Tell us what that means. You got me all like, we talk about energy all the time lately, and so you're talking about a business play as opposed to a residential play. Is that right?

01:46 That's right. Yeah. Yeah. The reality is businesses around the world and particularly here in the U S we've all treated energy with probably not a huge amount of respect because it's always showing up when we needed it at a price point that we are comfortable with. And we're never really under that much pressure to think about the sustainability aspect. And nowadays that is not the case. You know, the infrastructure that has served as well for the last hundred years. is no longer keeping up with our modern needs. And so there's a real opportunity to generate and store energy right at our business locations. And so we call that on -site energy. Some people refer to it as microgrids or distributed energy. And essentially what it is is generating and storing energy right where we need it. So instead of relying on a power plant in the middle of nowhere and long, vulnerable transmission lines to bring us the energy we need, we use solar, we use wind, we use gas, we use fuel cells, we use batteries, and we generate and store that energy. And then we use the grid as essentially our backup power versus our primary power.

02:52 I love it. So you're talking, I mean, a lot of businesses that do manufacturing or shipping or any kind of thing like that, they've got a big warehouse or a big building, lots of place to put panels and lots of places to store the energy, but they're just not doing it because no one's ever really emphasized that for B2B as far as I've been. I mean, I've been in business a long time. No one's ever come to me proposing something like this. How did you jump into that?

03:18 Yeah, you spot on. Yeah. Well, the, you're absolutely right. I think business leaders haven't really had to think about it and, and they haven't done because it's felt complex and overwhelming and scary. And I think now is an incredible time for businesses to really actually differentiate themselves and, get ahead of this because you can actually lower your operating costs. You can be more operationally resilient and ride through power outages, you can reduce your makings and then through doing all that, you get to win more contracts, attract great investors, attract great employees. So there's many, many benefits. But the way I got into this was actually I spent two years in Iraq after the Gulf War and I was supporting the oil and gas industry to move into the region. And it kind of blew my mind that here we were unlocking the biggest energy reserves in the world for our energy hungry economies. And yet the local populace was surviving on two hours of power a day because their infrastructure being devastated and terrible things happen when we don't have access to energy. And so it made me realize that as a personal mission, we need to create affordable, reliable and clean energy for all. And we're starting with businesses. I led one of the world's largest energy engineering firms, global power consulting practice and realized that yeah, it's. It's complex. It's hard. It's expensive for businesses to explore this. The supply side of the market, you know, the people who sell the solutions get really frustrated because they have amazing solutions, but they can't convince people to buy them. And so we realized we needed to disrupt the market and empower the buy side of the market to realize what's possible quickly and cost efficiently, and then connect them with the best supplies.

05:04 I think almost more than disrupt, I was gonna say almost more than disrupting the market, you're really educating the market that, hey, you can do this and actually convert what you have available to you in your real estate to produce something that you can share and sell, right?

05:18 Yeah, yeah, you're spot on. And education awareness, I think, is the biggest challenge today. And most people, you know, they don't know what a kilowatt hour is. They don't know how much energy they use. They don't know why their rates have gone up 40 % in the last year. And they don't know where those trends are going.

05:43 Well, we know why that's happened, but we won't get into that today. Okay, so this is really cool. So your whole play is building awareness, building a mechanism for businesses to look at their opportunity to generate this energy and generate revenue from their energy and share it with the community around them. Where's the money in it for you? What's the play? How does this? How does this equate revenue for these people and for you?

06:10 Yep. Yeah. We've you, we've spent the last five years and several years before that incubating the idea, building a software platform that automates a lot of the manual consulting, engineering and procurement efforts. And so our customers pay a annual platform access fee and they get to ingest a single site or literally we just support a customer to put over 18 ,000 sites into the platform. And then. Our platform pulls thousands of data points and we help them very quickly prioritize where across my portfolio does an onsite energy system make sense? What's it worth to me? Why should I do it? And then we actually ultimately help them design the system. And so we're solution agnostic. We represent their best interest, but we look at all technologies. And so we're not trying to say, Hey Todd, you only need to think about solar. Like actually let's look at solar and wind and storage and gas and all the other technologies. And let's tell, tell you what the best combination of those technologies is to meet your specific business needs, which can vary, you know, maybe you want to reduce your energy costs, but your peer down the road is more worried about outages. And it's a very different system that would meet those specific needs. And then once they've designed the system they want, then we built a marketplace to actually help them buy the right solution in the most competitive way possible.

07:33 I think it's brilliant. I was driving to the airport the other day and noticed that one of the places I typically park my car for short, medium stay storage or whatever, every covered parking stall had a whole bank of solar panels on it now and I was like, that's a smart play. They've already got the space, they've got nothing happening there, no buildings around them, it was like a perfect place to generate energy. Really smart.

08:00 Yeah. And that's what I love about onsite energy is we're using the existing built environment. So we're not, you know, destroying new, new areas. Like we're actually using an area that we've already essentially utilized, whether it be a rooftop, whether it be a car park and how good is it when you can generate energy at your location and then the likes of yourself can actually park and have your car shaded from the snow or the sun and you get a downstream benefit as well.

08:28 Totally.Totally, totally. That's very cool stuff. All right, so we now know what you do and why you do it. Who are you helping with this? Like we talked a little bit about just people with real estate or people with buildings, things like that, but who is your target? Who's the avatar you guys are really hunting for right now?

08:47 Yep. Our priority customers today are manufacturing businesses, distribution and logistics providers, particularly those that are thinking about fleet electrification and increasingly managing the supply chain, cold storage and things like that. Healthcare has become a really big sector for us. You know, hospitals obviously can't afford the power to go off and they want to show their communities that they're helping to make a positive impact as well as we support oil and gas, mining, any heavy energy consumer, and it can be massive industrial facilities right down to your local winery and brewery. So our platform is solution agnostic, but we make sure that we have from a sales and marketing perspective, we've got our target sectors.

09:36 That's very cool, very cool. So you have a distinct benefit package for each type of premise that you're working with. Is that what it sounds like?

09:48 Yeah. Yeah. So the key to this is, understanding the industry support, you know, the way a winery consumes and needs energy is very different to a heavy industrial manufacturing sector. And particularly in the manufacturing sector, there's huge supply chain challenges because every contract now typically asked for what is your sustainability plan? And so, you know, the pressure has been pushed downhill. So even the smallest vendors in the supply chain are being expected to show what their game plan is. And as you know, if you can reduce your operating costs, it positions you to either increase your margins or pass on savings. And so that becomes a win. And so I think in a world where economies are uncertain, interest rates have risen, inflationary pressures. I think there's a real opportunity for businesses to really like get a handle on their energy costs. It makes up to 40 % of operating costs for some businesses, but anywhere in the five to 40 % range. So being able to control that and lock it in for five, 10, 15, 20 years and not be reliant on the utility to sell you energy when prices are being in a very volatile way, escalated every year. It's impossible to plan your business when you don't know what your operating costs are going to be this time next year.

12:43 Amen. Amen. And who knows what's going to happen with the next election years are always so uncertain. So I'm really curious to see what happens over the next year. So as you've been building your business, let's talk a little bit about operationally and growth trajectory wise. You've been doing this business for about five years and building and growing this model. Looking back on these five years of growth, What is, is there like a key moment where you said, okay, that was the time we did this and this is the time we did that. Could you share one of those things that was kind of a big decision and pivot that you made to kind of get yourself on a better growth trajectory?

13:28 Yeah, I think we started literally as COVID kicked off. So the first two years was really challenging because we couldn't get a whole lot of real -time customer feedback. So we built a platform largely in isolation, expecting to know what the market needed. And so that was challenging. They're really hard. And so the biggest lesson I'd say is, don't do that. Even if, yeah, make sure you really engage with your customer group, know how they're gonna use your product and what the pain points are. And I think one of the biggest lessons for us is, because people are so kind of overwhelmed by energy today, they don't necessarily want to be in the product themselves, tweaking dials and knobs and running analysis themselves. They want to know someone else is doing it and representing their best interests. So we've really built the platform now to do all the heavy lifting for them, pull all the data that they previously rolled their eyes out when they were asked to go and find it. So pulling as much data as possible, running the analysis in an automated way, and then giving them the tailored customized insights. I think to answer your question, probably the biggest turning point was we didn't have a salesperson for the first few years. And I think hiring down as our head of sales and then we started escalating the companies we're talking to. We initially thought big enterprise customers had all this figured out and we'd sell to small single breweries, grocery stores. And he was going into a meeting with a large corporate customer and literally two minutes before the call I was like, I think we should test this like SaaS platform access concept. And he walked into the meeting, he freestyled it. He sold them on a platform access subscription versus individual site assessment fees. And that's been a model that now we've deployed and built the whole business around ever since. And so I think those kind of real time moments of going, trying to sell every single site assessment time and time again is painful. It's hard. It's tough for the customer to justify ongoing expenses. It's hard for us to be selling. So being able to on the fly and make those decisions and actually have people to go and execute and test and challenge and explore whether it's going to work is super awesome.

15:52 All right, so Gareth, what you just said is powerful and those listening, I hope you're paying attention because what he did, two huge things that I think you talked about here. First of all, don't develop in an incubator as isolated from your clients as much as you can help it. You need real -time feedback as you're building and building and building. Otherwise, you're gonna be building the wrong thing and nobody's gonna like what you gave them. But second thing which I think is almost more important, you took, your service didn't really change, but the way that you bundled it completely changed and it put you on a whole new level of growth where it was easier to buy, right?

16:37 Yeah, exactly.

16:38 Okay, so those listening, pay attention to that because I think that too often we have this idea in our head that everyone's gonna wanna buy it this way, but then you find that they actually want it bundled a different way. You're not actually changing what you do, but how you deliver it can be the means of a huge, huge new trajectory of growth that you probably weren't even thinking about before that meeting, were you?

17:03 Not at all. And it just opened up a whole new realm of customer profiles as well. And I think that's what was even more exciting for us is now you can get access to a customer that's got the 20,000 sites versus the single customer. And now you've got a lifetime of opportunity versus trying to find 20 ,000 individual customers. Yeah.

17:26 My gosh. No doubt about it. I think that avatar is probably the third big lesson we've got in today's discussion because if you don't know which avatar is going to pay you the best and be the best type of client, you've got to, got to, got to figure that out so that your pack, your product identifies with the client you want, not with trying to find 20 ,000 people, but find the one or two people that have 20,000 locations much better, much easier. What'd you say?

17:56 Yeah exactly. And the third point was, you know, have people around you that are willing to actually get after it and figure this stuff out. Because I think the big lessons we've learned in the last few years is, you know, one of our board members said this to us recently is, I've got this guy in my network. I have a chat to him, but I don't think he's a first 50 hire in your company. And I think that's a really important concept because the first 50 people have got to be a very unique personality. And style and attitude and have that adaptability and drive and purpose versus once you're more. 

18:28 Wear lots of hats? 

18:29 Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

18:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's interesting he said first 50. For some of you it might be your first 10, it might be your first 100. But you definitely gotta identify that at the beginning when you're in launch mode you really do need people to wear lots of hats and when you are really focused on growth and you know kind of your niche and what you're doing, you do need specialists, you do need people that are smarter than you at what you do and really know that thing very, very well.

19:00 Exactly.

19:01 Awesome, so Gareth, as you share these things, there's obviously a lot of really solid bullet points here of things people need to be looking out for and decisions that you've been able to make that have put you on a new growth path. What about some challenges? It never happens very easily. Are there some key things that kind of popped up on your radar that you weren't expecting to hit as you made some of those changes?

19:29 The sales cycles are always painfully slow. No matter how quickly you think you can get deals done, I think that's always a big learning. These are big complex organizations and you sell into a village versus individuals. So being able to talk to a vast complex array of personalities with their own need pain points, challenges, both professionally and personally, and being able to navigate that and get people to see past the status quo is always a unique opportunity. I think the way we're increasingly overcoming that is through trying to make energy interesting and engaging and exciting. And so we hired a head of marketing and she's awesome. We've got our own podcast, Renewable Rides, and we've got blogs and we do a lot of social media content. And we try to tie a lot of this back to. This is good for business. This is good for your career. And this doesn't have to be scary and overwhelming, but I think this education awareness process, it's such a new sector, but it's such a unique opportunity, like once in a generational opportunity for businesses to truly, truly differentiate themselves. I think trying to constantly share that story and do it in an engaging way continues to be the biggest lesson learned. You can't just go in with the facts and the figures and get people to make decisions based on just dollar amounts, because they've got lots of competing needs for their dollars. And so how do you get them really bought into it?

21:05 Right. Now, you talk about your sales cycle as being a big challenge. I think that that would, I think that's probably a truth for almost every business, that figuring out sales cycles, sales process, sales tools, all those things are a pain in the butt. But as you kind of developed your sales strategy, was it reliant on you at first, or was it something that you knew right away and just said, that's not me, I gotta get someone in here right away? I mean, how did you approach your sales process and your sales cycle and what have you done, like looking at that specifically, was there something you felt like you did really smart or did you kind of beat your head against the wall until you figured it out?

21:48 Yeah, I think the reality is definitely needed the right person driving it. So hired Dan as head of sales, he used kind of fundamental around making sure that we had the right target customers, the right personas that were fine tuning, but also just learning by doing really quickly and engaging with a lot of people and seeing what works, what doesn't, what customers are interested when we're finding a few customers in the same market that seem to be getting it and doubling down on that. And then trying to hire people that have the knowledge and skillset to understand that particular market segment and speak that language. And so, you know, the likes of Patrick, who he lives in Sonoma, he's operated wineries, he's owned wineries. He now sells to the wineries. He's also an avid car guy. And so he sells to the automotive industry. And so having people who actually really get that sector, I think is really important. We can train people on the energy side, but we need people who can get the market that they're selling into. And so I think they've been the biggest lessons candidly, and then having the likes of Sarah come in and actually bring the marketing discipline. Because up until that point, it was, you know, shotgun, record a vlog, write a blog. There was no real discipline around how do we actually answer the questions people are asking themselves and how do we do it from an account based marketing way such that we can bring in more inbound leads versus it all having to be cold call outreach, which is, as you know, like very time consuming, very frustrating for both parties, you know, the people trying to make the calls and the people receiving them.

23:34 I love it. Thank you for sharing that because a lot of people just assume that their sales is, it's just gonna work somehow. Magically things, you got a cool product, people are just gonna buy it. But what you just described is you mentioned four people specifically on your sales and marketing team that came in with specialties, came in with a network that they already had and they were able to communicate your product efficiently to a groupthat they knew their pains, they knew how to tell the story and make them part of that. That's awesome. It's really cool.

24:12 Yeah. And we've had, we've had people that haven't worked out because either they've, they've not been like that first 50 personality where they, you know, I think the challenge in sales is. 

24:23 Right. They need a playbook, right? Yeah.

24:24 Yeah, exactly. You're absolutely spot on, especially people who've sold like into corporate enterprises or they've sold on behalf of big businesses. Typically in that situation, you've already got a brand behind you that people trust and respect. And now you've got to just convert the opportunity. Whereas as a startup, you essentially have to convince someone of a market opportunity, of the startup mentality, of the opportunity. And you've got to bring that passion and purpose and you've got to bring that discipline to not give up.

24:58 I love it. I love it. No, this has been very fun. I love this conversation and for those listening, honestly, this is one of those episodes that you do need to listen to a couple times because Gareth is sharing insights that are very close to the chest for most people. They don't like to talk about these challenges, but it is a challenge with everyone I've ever talked to. Sales processes in particular almost never come naturally. Occasionally they do because they've lived in that space for so long that it was like, hey, we already had all the relationships that just kind of turned on. But that is not the norm. And Gareth, sharing these things with us has been super impactful. Most founders and operators, they don't just come up with everything on their own. Have you had a group or a person that you've been able to lean on as you've been trying to develop your business model?

25:50 I actually am part of Vistage CEO network for that exact reason, Todd. Like I think the reality is every business going through the same pain points. It may be a slightly different sector, slightly different language, but you know, I'm surrounded by a diverse set of leaders from completely different businesses, completely different sectors of all shapes and sizes, but everyone has exactly the same problems. And so, this is what's great about it. Yeah. And I think this is why we do need to talk about it because I think. It's hard and we're all trying to make a positive impact. So let's support each other to do that.

26:28 I love it. You know, I appreciate you so much for saying that because I am a huge advocate of peer advisory boards. And I just think that you just nailed it on the head. It doesn't matter what industry they're in or niche, the growth problems are so common among leaders that they just think that they're the unique little unicorn and have to figure it out on their own. Reality is, is that when you put yourself in the midst of other peers dealing with similar issues, It all sounds the same after a while. You're like, yeah, you got a hiring problem. You need to put the right person right there. Or, you're not reading your financials right. Did you know you can go get a loan for this? you know, I mean, just all those little things that you don't think of on your own that a peer advisory board can help you figure out. I love it.

27:17 Yeah. Yeah. And seeing the wood for the trees, I think, it's very often, like I very often find, I go to the meetings and hearing other people's problems, the solution is so simple and I can share the advice all day long when it's your own. It's very hard to actually see that reality. And then they take the holes and provide the advice and you're like, why didn't I think of that? That was so obvious. Yeah, exactly.

27:36 Yeah, like in 10 minutes, they've got you nailed, right? 

27:39 Love it. Yeah.

27:40 That's awesome. Now, I'm a huge proponent of Vistage and the way they do things. There's a lot of great groups you can join out there. But Gareth, I want to thank you so much for you taking the time today to connect with us and our community and really appreciate your story. What you've been able to do with your company thus far. I can't wait to keep an eye on your business and see where you're gonna take it. Energy's huge. More people are thinking about it. Truthfully, as a business owner, this has not been brought to my attention as something I should be thinking about, but it very, I mean, it totally is. And so I hope this brings awareness to people that are listening that should be hearing it as well.

28:22 When you think about Amazon, you know, you can buy all your personal products. When you think about energy, we want you to think about VECKTA and yeah, leverage our marketplace to get you the best deal possible. And so bring it on. I think if you're a business leader out there, get ahead of your competition and embrace the opportunity.

28:42 Love it, love it. Gareth, you're awesome, man. Go check out his info down below. We're putting all of his info in the show notes. And so if you wish I would have asked something or done something different with Gareth today, leave it in the notes below. Leave a comment. Let us know. We're both gonna be paying attention and we'd love to give you some feedback as to why, when, how things are happening with VECKTA. So Gareth, thanks again. Appreciate your time today.

29:07 Appreciate it Todd. Thanks everyone.