0:26 Hey, welcome back to the show. And today we are so blessed to have with us Brian, who's gonna take us through his journey. Brian, will you please tell us who you are and what you do?

00:35 Sure, absolutely. Yeah. My name is Brian Houp and I am the founder and head executive coach with ReZone Coaching. And so we work with ambitious entrepreneurs and high-level executives to help them identify and overcome their own self-imposed barriers.

00:54 Well, that's pretty broad. I mean, all of us have got the barriers, right? But tell us what you're seeing. Tell us, you know, a lot of people in our audience are definitely in that mode of being a leader, but they've all got self-imposed barriers. How do you recognize what someone's barriers are and how hard it, why is it so hard for us to see it in ourselves?

01:15 Oh gosh, that's a loaded question, I guess. But I mean, I think for me, what I would say that the, you know, when you think about the founders and entrepreneurs and a lot of who I think about when I think about a lot of your audience, um, there's a lot of focus on building a successful business with systems and practices and good products and services, and that's all imperative to have a good successful business. The reality is the people who run that structure, um, really determine how successful the business is going to be. And so for me to answer your question, where do we find those? The big thing I do is 360 degree reviews. That's a cornerstone of the work I do for people who don't know. That's 360 degrees around a person collecting feedback on what people are observing, both good and bad, is the place we start. Yeah.

02:05 Love it, love it. And I wanna dive deep into those three, six reviews because I don't think many people listening to this have ever had one done to them. And so, but before we do that, I wanna dive deeper into your business. Tell us about why do you feel like this is such, why are you passionate about this? What makes you want to solve this problem? And who specifically are you trying to solve it for?

02:26 Gosh, I think, you know, I spent, I've been doing this now for about 10 years. And before that I spent 20 years in the corporate world. And I was very fortunate to work for a lot of great leaders who inspired me and made me better, also made our products and services better. The experience that our customers had, our vendors had. Uh, and then I also had some situations where I dealt with some leaders who weren't so great. Um, and so I was able to really see the difference in the impact that had. I talk in terms of the ripple effect of either a good or poor leaders decisions or behaviors. And I witnessed both of those. And the reality is we spend so much time working that we have to have a good experience. It's just not, it's not fair to not have a good experience for human beings. And so that's really what drives me. And then, you know, just the experiences for us as individuals, I was embarrassingly voted office workaholic by over a hundred of my peers back when I was in the corporate world and, uh, you know, I think, I think, yeah, I think back to that time and, uh, you know, it's, um, yeah, I was so focused on doing a good job and doing good work, uh, that I missed a number of things too, just about myself and the experience I was creating for my family and, you know, those types of things. And those are the things that drive me as well. It's so easy. We're so, you know, most of us are so excited about having a success on our businesses that we, we just and we're successful in spite of some other things, then boy, when we can get our arms around those things, it's amazing how great our experience can be for ourselves and for everybody we impact.

03:59 That is really funny. I love that you shared that because being voted office workaholic can be, I guess a plus in some ways, but in other ways you're probably like, holy crap, is that really how I'm viewed? And

04:13 Yeah, you know, for me, yeah, to take it a step further, I actually, uh, I've had, uh, my wife's had a number of health challenges and she had gone through her second, uh, battle with cancer and I had some relatives, you know, some substance abuse problems. So for me, I think what's more alarming is a couple of years before that, I actually, um, I got my arms around it. Uh, and then whenever life sort of settled back and my wife got her health back on track and was back to work. And then some of my relatives were sort of settled down with some of those chaotic things. I just fell right back into my old ways. And that's the part, that's where it's not cool.

04:52 Well, you know, it's funny that you say that. And I have to believe that. And maybe you already recognize this and maybe I'm just pulling it out. I don't know. But maybe it was that experience that led you to really want to know how do people think of me and how should a leader think? Other people thinking about that, because so much of their ability to lead revolves around how they're impacting people around them. So now let's jump into this 360 thing, because I think that actually is a good segue into. You know, your experience to be recognized as something and you've probably thinking, I kind of don't want to be the grinder. I kind of want to be the good husband and the good dad and the good whatever else you need to be outside of work. Right? How did, how did these three sixties to work? And how, what does it tell a leader?

05:41 Yeah. So I think it's a great, great point. And so for me, I'll just use my own story there as an example. It's funny. I haven't actually done this before. So maybe you have, you brought something out there. So congratulations. But yeah, I think, I think about myself, I think this is a parallel with others. If you look at the scorecard that I was looking at, uh, then, then I was very successful, you know, I was kind of, as I, as I've jokingly said before, I had a, I haven't. Dusty box full of awards and plaques that, you know, are useless now. Uh, and so, you know, I had a lot of factors that said this, this guy's doing it right. Um, but in reality, it wasn't that way, but back to your question about how we use the three sixties. So, uh, I do it two ways. One is I'll use an online resource that people will go online and answer a bunch of questions and say, here's what I observe in Brian. And, um, And then the other thing that I'll do is I do a one-on-one phone interviews as well. Uh, and then we pull those things together confidentially and anonymously. We pull together, uh, the feedback and it's amazing. Quite frequently, uh, people who are really sharp and self-aware are still missing things. And quite often what I find probably most consistently is we show up a different way with a given audience than we do with another audience. So we might be creating a certain impression with the people who report up to us. But if we're on a team and we got peers, we may be different there. Um, and there are a lot of different ways to do that. Some people have had experience with three sixties that have been poor. Maybe that's been used against them for performance or appraisal, that type of thing. Um, so I'm really big on making sure they're confidentially done, um, and that we really have some good discussions in advance with those we're inviting to say, Hey, this is coming back to me specifically. Nobody else is going to see it. It's for my development. If you don't report back to me, you're going to get the same version of me. Uh, and I think, especially for busy entrepreneurs, uh, and I think about one of the first ones I ever did was with the founder of a company and in his case, the guy was just burning the candle at all ends. And, uh, I asked for feedback with this small staff of, I think he had about 10 people at the time and they all said, oh, he's great. I mean, he gives us unexpected bonuses and he, you know, all this stuff. And I said, that's great. Okay. Now tell me about where he needs to improve. And they said, Oh, I got no complaints. He takes care of us. We've had, you know, they just were so appreciative of everything he did. Well, once I pushed and once I got a little deeper, boy, the floodgates started opening up on the things that he could do better and no one ever told him. And you know, he's a great example. They were so appreciative of what he had done, but they didn't want to be critical. Uh, and I think that a lot with a lot of great, a lot of great leaders.

08:29 I think you're right and it is great that they're a great leader and it is great that everyone respects them. But yeah, you peel a few layers deeper into the onion and all of a sudden things start to come out that you never knew were there. I'm curious, as you do these, these interviews start to happen, what are you really looking for? As you perform this type, I look at it as kind of an operation. You're kind of digging in, you're peeling back that skin and looking down and saying, oh, crap, we got some cancer in here. We got something we need to pull out. What are you looking for? And how many people around, you know, they call it 360 because you're talking to people all around, upper, lower, sides, peers. You're talking to a lot of people around that leader. What are you looking for? And are there specific hints that you're like, okay, I need to dive deeper here.

09:20 Yeah, I think when I'm, when I use, I use an online tool called the leadership circle profile, which is in my opinion, investing class, uh, senior level leaders, and, uh, it actually specifically pulls out, uh, what they call creative competencies, which are associated with effective leadership at the top, everything from how much time and energy you're spent on mentoring and developing people versus setting a clear vision, speaking up courageously and authentically being honest, you know, you got a variety of different Uh, different ways to look at that. And then when I'm interviewing people, I'm looking for trends and themes, uh, from one to the next, because quite frequently individual people have their own opinions. And then I'm very, I've learned now that I've done so many over the years that they're, like I said, a minute ago, there frequently is a big difference between, uh, the way a person shows up within a given audience. 

10:13 Right, right. People below them, there's something different than their peers.

10:16 Yeah. So it may be one. Yeah. I think, I mean, so frequently that, and I think that's what, in fact, I just reviewed the results with someone on Thursday, I believe it was, and it was the same thing, this gentleman, actually he had his, his scores were off the charts as far as, um, as far as what people thought about what he was doing. Except for one group. And he had one group that was like, then his group that were, I guess we'll call them his peers. Uh, and then his peer set, um, they were seeing him differently because he was focused on different things when he was interacting with those folks. Um, which is, you know, 

10:59 Interesting. That is a really interesting thing.

11:01 yeah, yeah. I think it's in, in mind, it's very focused on what we're talking about actions and behavior. So I'll ask, you know, how often do you see this or how often do you see, how often do you see, um, them involved with the mentoring and developing or, you know, how, how frequently are we talking about setting a clear vision, that sort of thing. And, you know, this is really what we're talking about is where is the time and attention and energy going from the person that, that we're centered on.

12:52 Right, all right. So let's take a step back for a second because I wanna tie this into our listeners and our listeners are really, really geared towards growth, right? They're kind of in that stage between, at least from what I'm hearing feedback-wise from my listeners is that a lot of these people have 10 employees to say 50. And you and I both know that that's kind of an interesting time in a business growth cycle because you're really kind of exploring what's beyond the reach of a founder, what's beyond the reach of the CEO of this organization, and why are they so involved in so many parts of the business, right? And so as we talk about these listeners, or people who are in that growth mode of like, gosh, I'm stuck at 5 million in revenue, and yeah, it's a good place to be, but I wanna be 50, you know? What is that missing link, and what do they need to do as a leader to developa pattern of behavior that kind of gets them out of the way of the other leadership people in their team to be able to blossom and grow.

14:01 Yeah, it's the first answer I gave you is it's, they got to shift the way that they think about their role. I mean, that that's super broad, but that is, that is the key in itself. One of the things that I'll, I like to draw an analogy that I think every leader stands on an invisible three-legged stool and each leg of the stool represents a different part of their leadership. And it's, these are the things that make the difference in this leaders who have a glass ceiling they put on themselves are wide open to success. And one of those legs is a mentality and approach. And so, you know, the right mentality, I would say, is open, big picture, forward thinking, being aware of your time and your talents and your attention, being aware of how you influence other people and are you, that one gentleman who I could not get negative feedback on at first, when it pushed him to shove, he needed to delegate. And he needed to ramp up more of his, whatever he had, 10 or 12 employees at the time, he needed to ramp them up so they could take on more. And they did ultimately, they expanded certain departments and teams. And then he was able to, to set the clear vision and focus on doing the other things.

15:15 Right, well I can tell you that from personal experience, I've been that type of leader. I've built and grown organizations in the past and it is hard to let go of certain things. There are things I love to let go of. Bookkeeping, yeah, from day one, I hand that off to somebody else. Payroll, yeah, I don't wanna worry about that, I just wanna keep people happy, let me hand that off. There's things I immediately hand off and then there's the other things. You know. I love being involved in the marketing. I love being involved in customer success. I have a hard time letting some of those things go. But as you see these organizations growing from a 10 person operation into that 50 and 100 and 300, 500 people organizations, that is not sustainable. How do you help them see that they're in the way? What are some red flags that you see as you work with these leaders to try and help them? So you know, when that kind of thing's happening, you're kind of in the way.

16:19 Yeah, I think, you know, the nice thing about the 360 is quite frequently people will tell us, I mean, that's, that's really, that's the good news is people will tell us if we, if we push them and we, you know, we'll get them to tell us, and then I think we're part of the secret there is to be able to go a few layers deeper. So, okay. Okay. So for example, Mr. CEO founder, you're not delegating and what does that actually mean to the business, you know, what, what does that look like? And so, you know, in this case, this gentleman, um, he, he wasn't taking good care of himself and, uh, he was eating terribly and, uh, he was, had terrible, uh, work habits and just, I mean, as far as didn't sleep well and just was just burning the candle at all ends. And the reality was he couldn't bring the best version of himself to work. He wouldn't think in this clearly. He wouldn't make it as good of an impact. And then also while he had a vision to grow, he wasn't even really able to bring in other staff because some of the rest of his staff wasn't qualified to be able to, to replace him to take them over. You know what I mean?

17:25 I love that you say that because it is so important to bring your best self. And as you're alluding to it, I think you're getting there is, how do you know what skill sets that you have are your best? And where can you actually have the most impact in the overall organization as opposed to trying to be the best in an area where you're just not that good?

17:47 Yeah. And I don't think, I think in my experience, I don't find people that are trying to be so good at everything. It's, it, I think it's more so it's. They don't necessarily have the comfort level of the trust to let something go test that. That's what I mean. That's what I see. Uh, and I'm a big fan of, uh, let's, let's do some controlled experiments. Like let's focus on doing some things differently and let's experiment with it. Because, um, without the experience. It's really difficult and it's almost reckless to just blindly trust them. You know, we didn't, we didn't get to these people didn't get to 10 or 15 employees from, from one, uh, or up to, you know, $20 million from zero without, you know, being careful and paying attention to things. So it's this, it's this balance between the two and I'm a big, big believer in, okay, let's identify where we can have some controlled experiments and let's, let's test the waters on some things. Uh, and then we come back and we report on that. I talked to someone, a client this morning. And one of the things that she and I were talking about is that she went out and. Had some experiments with some different situations. Now she's not a founder, but she's one of the executives that's been promoted. And, you know, part of that discussion is around the idea of, uh, in, in her case, just speaking up, being a little more bold and making some more recommendations and maybe challenging some of the other peers who are, who are with her running this organization. And, you know, as she's been challenging that a little bit, it's been working out. And so she's saying, you know what? Wow. This, this, okay. this, this is, this, this is working. Right. Yeah.

19:28 I love it. You know, one of the fun things about what you're saying to me is that you're bringing up a lot of things that I'm resonating with. You know, as I've been part of, as I said, a lot of organizational growth in my own companies, I've seen where certain leaders do step into that role where they're willing to do some experimenting. A lot of people aren't willing to do some experimenting. They think that I'm in this role because I'm the best and everyone needs to do what I say Whereas others are like, hey, you know what? I got some great people on my team. Let me see what happens when I actually delegate this thing out and what do I come back with? And I love what you're saying because I think that as a CEO especially, your role is really to do what, Brian? I mean, what do they need to challenge their leaders to do with their own organizations? Even if it's only one or two people, what should they be doing to kind of stretch their teams?

20:25 Yeah. Are you talking about the, I mean the CEO themselves?

20:31 Yeah, what does the CEO do to help encourage their leadership teams to lead instead of do everything? Like what they just got out of doing. You know what I mean?

20:40 Oh my, yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. I mean, what's, what's coming to my mind right away is we got to lead by example. And I think that's when you talk about, talk about, you know, what got me into this and what I think about what drives me now, I'm really fortunate that as a, as a young leader and even as a young business person, I was able to witness some incredible leadership that, that delegated that gave empowered employees and challenged employees. And I grew so much and got so much better in that environment. And then when I was able to lead, I just did the same thing. I didn't know any different. Part of what I'm thinking about too is, quite frequently I've witnessed where individuals just begin to emulate what they witness around them. And they don't even really realize that they're just doing it. And this if we don't let go of things and then we press into details and we unnecessarily excessively, um, then we, we demonstrate to others, this is how it works. And we, we underestimate that we handicap our, our whole organization and we miss, you know, the opportunity to really grow and expand the way we want to, because we don't have input from the people who, who can help us the most.

21:59 I love it. Well, one thing I wanna make very clear to my listeners is that people like Brian are out there to help you. And if you don't have a coach you're working with, if you don't have a peer group or someone to go to for this type of advice and this level of thinking, you're really cutting yourself short as a leader. And I highly encourage both. I really think that most of you out there have the funds to be able to have a personal coach and or a leadership coach and be part of a peer community of some sort where you're getting this type of feedback because Brian and I are just kind of bouncing off each other here talking about problems that we see as people trying to help other CEOs and organizational leaders really develop into good leaders. And I hope that you're hearing the message here. Get someone from the outside to look in and say, you know what, have you thought about trying this? Have you thought about doing this? Because you're gonna skip a lot of problems you might hit with someone like Brian at your side. Brian, what do you say to people who you work with or prospective clients that have never had someone like this in their life to help them build and grow their business?

23:08 Yeah. Well, I say, I mean, for one, if you've never experienced it, then you don't know what you're missing. I mean, I think that's important to understand, right? Um, you know, an analogy comes to my mind for anyone who's maybe interested in sports, if you're not, hopefully you can conceptually still follow the idea, um, you know, we can have a, uh, the perfect game plan and we can have a coach, uh, who's running a sports team who can do the Xs and the O's and can understand how to, um, you know, out strategize the opponent. But the reality is when the athletes are playing on the field or the court or whatever, wherever they are, they have to be in the physical condition to be able to execute the game plan. And so the reality is what I see with, especially a lot of founders and CEOs. Um, there's so much energy on making sure that they've got the game plan right, uh, that they underestimate the role that the condition that they're in brings to their ability to execute the game plan. And so that's, I think that's what I see a lot. And quite frequently, you know, it's not uncommon that there's something within their own tendencies and their own sort of natural habits that they've gotten away with and we don't, they don't realize it until they collect some feedback that says, you know, they subconsciously might even be thinking, well, I can think of a gentleman that I worked with that was hey, his issue was arrogance. And, um, and I, and he, I think he. Yeah. And he would say that, uh, that's part of what committed to contribute to his success. Uh, the reality was he was successful in spite of that. Uh, and he could have been dramatically more successful and he ended up being that way once he worked on that and improved that area for sure.

25:00 I love it. Confidence and arrogance are two different things. Right?

25:02 Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And then back to that idea of, you know, what is the biggest differences that unlock, you know, a CEO who can be as successful as possible. Um, it's that mentality and approach and part of that mentality and approach that I believe is the right way is to find this, this balance between, um, confidence and humility. And we need both. We have to have both. Quite frequently, people tend to be wired one way or the other, but we, you got to find a way to get both those, if you're going to be running an organization or if you're in a high position of leadership in any organization, in my experience.

25:38 I love it, I love it. Brian, you know, a lot of people don't get to where they're at without some kind of a mentor or team that is behind them helping them get there. Is there anyone that you'd like to give a shout out to today that's helped you kind of develop the processes and the schema or the model that you've been implementing for the last decade?

25:55 Yeah, I think what's interesting for me is I actually started a little mastermind group with two other executive coaches, uh, Trevor Blondeel and Nicole Provonchee that, uh, we've, I guess we've been coming together almost weekly for about four years. And, uh, it has been a game changer for, for all three of us. So finding, uh, someone else who's, uh, paired up on the same interest but also willing to challenge you and support you. That's been helpful for me. It's made all the difference in the world. Yeah, for sure.

26:32 I love it. Brian, that is like the best shout that I can hear. I just, I can't encourage it enough to those of you listening. If you're not even an informal group, like what they've got where they meet once a week and they just kind of get together, share wins, share losses, hold each other accountable to things they want to do better, you're missing out on so much. Get a coach, find a team, find some peers who are willing to get together with you and build out the weaknesses that you have and recognize where you're not as strong and find people to fill those spots and really lean into your strengths and you're gonna find your business growing like you never thought it could before that, in my opinion.

27:09 Yeah. I think one other thing I would add too, I would even say this if you're, for whatever reason, if you've got a mental block and you've just never hired a, an outside coach, um, maybe you're not comfortable with that in your business or a leadership coach, I would, I can think back to myself, you know, I hired a coach when I first started snow skiing to teach me how to, how to snow ski. I hired a nutritional coach, uh, to help me during COVID and, uh, a personal trainer to help, you know, and what's interesting is Yeah. Once you start to experience the benefits of a one that is well suited for what you're looking for, and I will say I've gone through some of them where I haven't, it hasn't been a good fit. Um, but once you find that and you can appreciate the power of how it can just amplify your success, uh, and your progress, it's, it's life changing.

27:58 Brian, I love the conversation today. It's super relevant to those listening. I really feel like this is a powerful message. We can't say enough and that is find a Brian or find Brian and allow them to enter into your circle and build out what you're good at, help you see the areas you need to strengthen, hold you accountable to some things and just build and grow, build and grow, build and grow. And I think that you can't do that without someone like that in your circle. So Brian, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Thanks for sharing your insights. And we loved having you on the show today.

28:32 Thank you so much for having me. I've enjoyed it and I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thanks for all that you do for the audience. It's it's really, it's awesome.

28:39 My pleasure, my pleasure. And we'll see the rest of you on the next episode.